"The Scarlet Crusade is no more..."

Tammy-wyrmrest-accord · January 17, 2022, 2:00am

The Onslaught and Brotherhoood are pretty much interchangeable with the Crusade now? Im glad you now agrree. You argued very much the opposite in the other thread aas a way of trying to dismiss the possibility of them participating in a hypothetical Light Crusade expansion.

And even in the book, the author believes the Crusade is still around. It’s only in later notes that they’re made aware of the Ebon Blade attack and even then, the claim that they’re wiped out is second/third hand intelligence that comes with two caveats in the form as “as far as we know”, followed immediately by pointing out how the group has a tendency to survive extermination in the same way rats and roaches do.

The Crusade, and their extremist ideology, is still there- just waiting until Blizzard decides to bring them back into the spotlight again. Like during a hyppothetical Light Crusade expansion.

And speaking of the other thread…

I’ve been going back and forth over lore and addressing bad arguments for years before you started posting. I’ll be doing it when/if you stop posting. In my free time, I enjoy providing helpful facts and addressing ignorance regarding my favorite creative works/hobbies.

I’m not afraid. That’s why I don’t bemoan the idea that society doesn’t venerate Christanity or various establishment authorities, the way you do. It’s why I don’t fear Blizzard is going to somehow uniquely villainize the Light, like you do. It’s why I don’t create constant threads on the topic where I try to undermine the idea of a hypothetical Light Crusade expansion, like you do.

And I pointed out the instances where you tried to downplay and/or justify Xe’ra’s actions in the other thread. You responded to them. Don’t try and deny it.

Again, I explained my defintion and pointed out examples in the thread. You respended to them. Don’t try to deny it.

A better expansion idea than “Light Crusade”

Blizzard’s increasingly tendency to have the Alliance be a bunch of passive peaceniks sitting around doing nothing until the Horde decides to spark conflict by turning into the very image of the industrialized dark empire they were originally meant to subvert is what’s been messing the story over. It’s moving away from exploring the cultural and political landscape of the world hasn’t helped either.

Lack of continuity and huge retcons, zigzagging characters have always been a thing in Blizzard and are the lesser of its writing troubles. The lore has always been a mess. That’s not what’s been screwing it over lately.

You’re right about the lore being a mess, even if we disagree about some of the causes. The political and cultural landscape of the world tends to change based on which characters the writers like, which ones they dislike and which character changes the fans are loudest about. If only we, the fans, had put our feet down sooner and not accepted Blizzard changing the lore based on the time of day, the season, and the phases of the moon.

Blizzard lore was changing wildldy since the inception of the Warcraft franchise. the transition from Warcraft 1 to 2 to 3 to WoW and every expasnion has come with huge changes. And no, Blizzard didn’t make those biggest decisions based on what fans were loudest about wanting, so I don’t know where you’re going with that one.

They clearly do faavor some characters, particularly Anduin and have been pushing Calia as of late, so the idea they’re going to universally villainize the Light and all its assocated characters is unfounded.

The fact that she didn’t do anything else but try to forcibly transmogrify him is the proof that she didn’t have anything else planned. That was her only plan and the only thing she ever bothered doing.

A better expansion idea than “Light Crusade”

You already admitted to viewing Blizzard’s treatment off the Light as both an extension of their views on religion in general- and your religion in particular, as well as an extension of society’s disrespect for institutions of authority. You tried to make the argument supporting Turalyon’s obedience to Xe’ra by asking what I would do if the state imprisons our loved ones.

You continued to both simultaneously argue that Xe’ra was in the right, Turalyon was right to support her, and how you wouldn’t defy authority that locked up your family. All because you view such things as “tough but fair” and consider the very existence of people with authority over us, even when it’s wrong, to be necessary.

My refusal to abide unjust acts by the state is not the result of my cousin’s situation. It predates it by some time. I’ve already defied unjust authority on the behalf of strangers, so doing it for family is not a huge ask.

And you keep making the same arguments in favor of unquestioning obedience to the state in your other discussions in this thread.

I’m not going to stop tell the truth just because you want to lie.

I’d also conceded that they aren’t the same while noticing parallels and the attitudes in society and Blizzard’s writhers (given the direction they’re taking the story, and how poorly implemented that writing is). You being in denial of what I actually said about Turalyon, whether the authorities incarcerate my family on a case-by-case basis and my limited respect for government won’t change that.

What are you going to do if the authorities you’re concerned about catch your cousin, and then treat him fairly and safely while handing out a proportionate, non-draconican punishment?

You tried to argue simultanrously that Turalyon was right o obey her, but also that he defied her. But he didn’t defy her. He went right along with what she did. And you tried to argue it by asking what I’d do if my loved ones were tried in a manner I disagree with.

And even if you can agree that the situation isn’t 100%, you are trying to draw pararells between how he was right to obey her and how we shoudl, in real life, also obey the dictates of the state even when we disagree.

Of course if you change your original question and now have the authorities making fair decisions that I agreed, well then there wouldn’t be anything to defy.

But Xe’ra didn’t make a just decision regarding Alleria. And Turalyon never defied that decision.

A better expansion idea than “Light Crusade”

Alleria consorted with the Locus Walker to help find a way to fight the Legion, who she’d already heard ahead of time was able to use the Void. Xe’ra, who hates the void, told her that she’d never work with it because Xe’ra has such and dislike of the Void she didn’t even let it be known that nauru enter a Void state as part of their cycle because that would tie her to it in some way. When Alleria discovered the Locus Walker potentially made a new ally in the fight against the Legion and later used the Void to save lives, Xe’ra was so angry that she used the Void that she imprisoned her for an indeterminate time/life, which is an unjust punishment because Xe’ra failed to show what harm Alleria did or crime she broke.

We know Xe’ra dislikes the Void, but I was asking WHY Xe’ra dislikes the Void, which you didn’t answer. And you didn’t answer the next three questions;

Why would anyone hate the Void?

How was it an unjust ruling given the relevance of the answers for the first two questions?

How is that self-righteous given the relevance of answers for the first three?

We’re getting somewhere; Xe’ra didn’t explain to Alleria the problem with using the Void and she should have. That would’ve helped (funnily that’s one thing Xe’ra and Illidan had in common; not good at getting their points across or explaining their reasoning sometimes).

I can’t tell you why Xe’ra dislikes the Void as she never explains. it All we know is that she thinks it’s bad and dislikes it so much that she unjustly punishes Alleria simply for associating with it, even though Xe’ra herseld (and all naaru) experience a Void phase and she refuses to admit it. That’s where Xe’ra’s hypocricay and self-righteousness comes into it.

A better expansion idea than “Light Crusade”

Ignorance is not bad. Nobody knows everything. Your issue is a general lack of desire to educate yourself on things when you’re able. Rather than actual research to learn basic facts about the things you’re talking about, you demand evidence they exist, and then want to argue them because they don’t match your preestablished conceptions- which are generally wrong.

Also, in Vanilla, we were tasked with stopping the revival of Hakkar by his Voodoo wielding allies, lest they drench the world in a new era of bloodshed. Then during Rise of the Zandalari in Cataclysm, we had to do it again. And then in Battle for Azeroth, we had to try and stop the Blood Trolls allied with Zul from reviving another ‘blood loa’ in the form of G’huun. And it was the loa Mueh’zala allied with the Jailer that helped put BfA and Shadowlands into action.

I ask people to do research to make them think. G’huun was no “blood loa”, G’huun was an artificial Old God – a Void entity – accidentally made by the Titans. The blood trolls called him a loa, but he wasn’t one. While you’re right about Hakkar, I’m not sure whether Mueh’zala counts, since he’s working with the Jailer and even before then was affiliated with the force Death. By the time we encounter the loa in the game, Bwonsamdi is the Loa of Death (and he escaped the villain bat).

It’s not about antagonistic Shamans or Priests or Paladins, but their powers. And what about the part where I pointed out that the elementals were influenced by outside forces? While I said Decay, when Ragnaros and Al’akir went villainous, along with several of their forces, there was Void influence involved.

I know what I’m talking about because I read about and look things up before I mention them. I recommend you do the same, as it will keep you from being wrong about so many things. It only works if you go in to use the information to inform your understanding though- not if you just want to reaffirm your preexisting beliefs.

That’s how I know that G’huun was indeed a “blood loa”, because the term loa can apply to Old Gods, and Eternal Ones, and Wild Gods, and Ghosts, and more under voodoo in WoW.

As we can see, many loa (including Muezellla and almost Bwonsamdi) , their followers, and their powers have been negatively portrayed in the game. So your fear that Bllizzard would uniquely target characters or powers related to the Light religions for villain batting is wrong.

You’re wrong . You need to actually read more about the history of the protrayal of non-Christian religions compared to Christianity in the the current Anglosphere zeitgeist. Because you are very ignorant of the disparities in portrayal and how they get used narratively.

I already explained how in the last thread. And you responded to it. Don’t deny it.

Because you left out the fact that the Templars also sought to secure territory, just so you could instead attribute that element of the Scarlets to another organization that existed mellenia later. Either you didn’t know about the fact, or you intentionally left it out. So which is it?