Sub dominated 25+ keys.
For anything lower than that, both sub and outlaw are both perfectly fine. Some dungeons give one or the other a slight edge depending on the damage profile.
Haven’t played assassination, but the few I’ve grouped with actually performed pretty well considering the dissatisfaction from players.
I’m going to keep mine simple:
Thanks for the feedback guys 
This seems to be a problem with doing any sort of rework. Ret Paladin is reworked and there are a ton of things that need addressed on other classes too. We talk about changes but eventually get disgruntled from the lack of simultaneous action. Unless updates come through faster to improve QoL, the feeling of “not listening” gets louder. IMHO, that’s a communication strategy which needs to be gotten in front of, and the roadmaps should really be leveraged to talk more about it.
What is the next spec on the radar and should we even expect changes?
Pretty much. I understand from the interviews before Dragonflight launched that there’s essentially a “pipeline,” where feedback goes in and can’t be acted upon because there’s something already being worked on or ready to go, but with a growing team that should be alleviated. I mean it feels like we’ve gotten season 2 of Dragonflight twice as fast as season 2 of Shadowlands, a massive improvement.
But there’s also the internal politics, like Nightstalker supposedly not being fixed despite a fix being ready to go because the balance team blocked it, and the abysmal communication.
I would honestly be fine if they just said something now and then. The silence is deafening. The last minute damage buffs and Nightstalker fix were welcome and clearly show that we’re being heard, but I would be a liar to say that things didn’t feel hopeless checking every blue post and set of PTR notes to be met with… nothing.
Just saying “hey we’re working on it” or “hey this is what we’re thinking about” would be great, but Rogue didn’t even get an official feedback thread on the PTR forums… along with Mage and DH, if I recall.
Yup. We had to create our own feedback threads, neither of which had any replies or acknowledgement from blues.
When you enter Azeroth, you’re presented with two pieces of sheet music:
One is Chopsticks and the other is Chopin.
If you choose Chopsticks, you’ll be happy but ignorant.
If you choose Chopin, you’ll be bitter but invited.
Which do you choose?
There’s a conversation about which pianist is the better professional – who can play what – but are we playing as a hobby or a profession. There’s a lot of muddied speech about this topic on Azeroth but that seems always at the heart of the two sides.
Personally, the farther the game gets developed with injected maladroit masquerading as difficulty (Chopin), the farther I get from recommending WoW as a hobby to anyone (Chopsticks).
Honestly, at this point, my wishlist is for them to remember that daggers are a weapon type. RIP Bloody Tokens availability?
As a start.
Outlaw damage buffed by 20%
Simplify Outlaw rotation, feels bloated with all the buttons you need to press!
Real happy to see this thread is still getting support every now and again.
I read every single post, and every voice matters.
Just remember: The goal is to be good and fun, but not busted. If we’re busted, then we go into balance yo-yo purgatory and are promptly forgotten for a while after.
I don’t think we’re going to see ranged slot stat sticks ever return, sadly, even if they were situationally cool.
Totally agree with a glyph that reskins Pistol Shot and Between the Eyes as throwing knives though.
Heck, even thought about a class customization option similar to Druid forms where we can choose between a knife, a wheel-lock pistol, or a revolver. Seems like a decent bit of dev time for an animation that lasts a second at most though 
.
The problem with Outlaw is its crippling dependency on RNG. Between RtB, Audacity, Weapon Master, Hidden Opportunity, Alacrity, and Opportunity Shots, Outlaw’s damage is intentionally lower because the moon could align and you get your 5 point Ambush for a few seconds.
Removing a large portion of that RNG means Outlaw needs a solid source of stats to pull from. Having a stat-stick that adds to the damage of something like Pistol Shot would work incredibly well.
Outlaw rotation is fine. It just needs more damage. People need to stop asking Blizzard to reinvent the wheel… As we all know what happens when they try to ;).
This.
Don’t turn us into a spazzy 3 button dribbler spec like ret. Just make the effort be worth the result.
i only have 1 issue since i have returned to wow.
i highly dislike that having combo points on my rogue - keeps me in combat until i slice n dice them all away. it is annoying.
I really have to disagree. There’s nothing fun about pumping Ambushes and juggling Vanish and Shadow Dance, which is opposite of what Combat and Outlaw originally was.
Subtlety and Assassination both have ways of ignoring armor in their talent trees. Outlaw does not.
Subtlety and Assassination both have on demand burst (though at varying speeds). Outlaw does not.
Outlaw has become the rudderless, what-to-do-with spec that was Combat before it, however, in a more horrendous form. If you want to spam one button, go play Fury Warrior.
I do not want to spin plates with zero payoff. I do not want to rely on Shadow Dance that’s not even affected by Restless Blades.
Roll the Bones is still a colossal albatross.
Remove Bandit’s Guile was a massive mistake.
Removing Revealing Strike, Expose Armor, and Weapon Specializations was another.
Outlaw is a boring APM spec without the payoff, unlike Fury Warriors.
Remove Bandit’s Guile was a massive mistake.
Removing Revealing Strike, Expose Armor, and Weapon Specializations was another.
Go play classic bud. I’m glad all these abilities are gone it wasn’t fun using any of these. It sounds as if you want to play Combat Rogue and not Outlaw Rogue.