The Reason why the Horde Campaign wasn't fulfilling

There’s plenty of reasons that have already been discussed on these forums, and throughout the internet. The failure of Saurfang as a convincing figurehead of the rebellion, Baine becoming a traitor and furthering the idea that the Horde and Alliance might not continue.

I think the biggest reason, is Sylvanas. Sure, she wasn’t really present for most of the time. Instead we were working with Nathanos, Rexxar, and Lillian. But ultimately Sylvanas is the one that was always going to have the biggest impact. Her pull on the narrative was so big that it was never going to own up to what should’ve happened with the set up that Battle for Azeroth was given.

Yes, she’s always been dubious at best, and had always had a tinge of darkness. This could be foreseen as early as Cataclysm. Yet, it felt like she was going to lead the Horde into a direction that defied that, that what she was doing had reasoning that made sense. before BFA actually came out, we even saw Sylvanas outright say why she wanted Teldrassil, she internally gave a clear idea why she attacked the undead at the Arathi reunion.

It almost looked like we were going to be given a story that had actual depth, exploring on why the Horde does things that look bad. But then, that cinematic was released. The one, where Teldrassil burned.

I’m not sure if it mattered to anyone else. Hell for many, they might have expected that kind of behavior completely, but for me it was a turning point, the first among a few. It was then I knew we were going to get something not as thought provoking as I thought it would be. I rationalized it as propping my hopes up higher than I should “It’s warcraft, right? It’s never been too deep.”

Anyway, Sylvanas’ intentions were never clear. She was always in the shadows and working behind everyone’s back. It’s likely part of the reason why she was chosen to be warcheif this expansion, for her storyline to be in the spotlight. This was the main problem.

They never addressed it, they never put us into her perspective. In the past she was fully willing to give us an idea of where she’s at, she’s in fact constantly reminding us of that in Silverpine questing. Which was why it was disheartening to see that all along she was just lying the whole time.It’s not surprising, to be sure, but it just doesn’t make sense in my mind. She represented the Forsaken in more than one way. Some people thought this was a bad thing, but I liked that she was essentially the living embodiment of what it means to be undead in a world that rejects you.

Hell, there’s many points where you can say it doesn’t really match up with what was presented before. In before the storm, you can read it to where Sylvanas was trying to keep an upper hand over Anduin to keep the Forsaken, and the Horde safe. Even if she stated her end goal was to destroy Stormwind, this didn’t read as a villainous thought at first. It just read as someone willing to go any lengths to best serve her people, and by extension herself.


I just feel like it could’ve been much more different, and I know I’m not the first to lament this. That maybe if she was more open about why she did what she did, then maybe we’d have a better reason to dislike her, or possibly sympathize with her. Now it just feels like they took a character that had so much potential, and threw it away. Just like Garrosh.

In this way, it is just like the end of mop, and all of the memes about that has a core of truth. It’s technically not exactly beat for beat like the mop storyline, but the end result was the same.

TLDR; They didn’t write include Sylvanas in the campaign or expanded on her motives well enough.

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Hmm … well I’ll admit I’ve always found Sylvie’s motives rather opaque. With how “EoN” portrayed her, she is a character who can (and will) do and say one thing; but be thinking something completely different. Even her actions within Silverpine (if the whole “Bulwark” thing is your lens to view them in) suggests what she was really doing was just bolstering the strength of her meatshield. I think expectations of her in BfA where really dependent on your image of her.

As for her “motives” in BfA … unfortunately them remaining obscure was the whole point. This conflict (in every way) was SYLVIE’S war, we were all just playing the roles we were given. Her objectives were personal, selfish, and ambitious … but certainly not altruistic (nor did I expect them to be the longer Blizz held off actually giving us insight into them). Just like “Reckoning” was a parallel to the WrathGate; BfA was a parallel to “EoN” (with Sylvanas characteristically using others as tools for her personal goals, then abandoning them the moment they ceased to be worth the bother towards those goals). That was the twist … it was deliberate.

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I think I get that’s the point of why it is that way. As we both pointed out, she is almost inherently secretive. I was just saying that in itself is why it was poorly handled.

Another way this storyline could’ve been better, was with Vol’jin still as warcheif and Sylvanas in the “Saurfang” role. Not as a rebellion leader, but as the general leading the battle plans. Hell, I think that would’ve made for a far better expansion than what we got, but hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.

The issue with THAT is that he’d never tolerate her nonsense. The Forsaken under Sylvanas were already sort of stretching the seams of reality in why they were still allowed to be part of the Horde at all by that point; and Vol’jin NEVER trusted Sylvanas. Hell, part of the reason I think he needed to die was so that he wouldn’t have brought the hammer down on her HARD for her stunt in Stormheim (which was shifty as all hell).

There are a number of functional goals that I think Blizz intended to complete with this expansion (even if I think the execution and means of those goals were sloppy at best). Yes, they wanted to progress Sylvie’s natural character arc. Yes, they wanted to set up the next expansion (which likely IS Shadowlands themed … just not in the way ANY of the leaks suggested). However, finally, the point of forcing Sylvie into that Warchief spot was ultimately to not JUST have her do something so atrocious she would cease to be a member of the Horde; but also do it in a way to leave the Forsaken distanced from her, and remaining with the Faction (Calia is a different issue).

In short … Sylvie’s mask needed to crack, and the world needed to see her for what she really is (and the only real way to do that effectively is put her in the spotlight, in a position of authority that lets her do whatever she wants without restraint). No more people looking the other ways at convenient times … and no more Scourge Light remaining in the faction SOLELY because Game Mechanics say so.

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I don’t think I would mind not knowing Sylvanas’ true motives if I really wanted/felt it was necessary to fight the Alliance anyway. To me, that was a bigger issue.

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That’s pretty fair, I’ve seen this come up from time to time and I agree with it to a certain extent, but for me I think that Sylvanas’ characterization was really the whole reason for the campaign in the first place.

It wasn’t fufilling for the Horde because.

  1. We never had a good reason to go to war and therefore nothing to be invested about.

  2. They promised faction pride and they gave us villain bat beatdown where the Horde looked like a bunch of puppy killing a holes.

  3. They butchered Sylvanas, Baine and Saurfang’s character completely. Sylvanas acts like an impulsive angsty teen, Baine has no spine and doesn’t even protest when Sylvanas literaly steps on everything his people is about and Saurfang spends half the campaign moping.

  4. I’ve seen kids playing War with more knowledge of war and tactics than these writters.

  5. They try to compensate the Horde not having demigods on their ranks by giving certain characters plot armor and impossible solutions.

  6. Nathanos. ENOUGH of him! No one likes this guy cause he acts like an overcompensating moron who wants to put your character who did WAY MORE in one expansion than he did his entire life down so he can feel manly in front of his dead waifu.

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I think the biggest issue with the War Campaign was we never really found out Sylvanas true intentions.

And if this is going to be reveled in the next expansion well…

We got a few breadcrumbs but they should’ve made the war campaign end with the very last patch .

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it wasn’t fulfilling because first, the reasons for war was stupid.
“they may attack in 50 years”

while having one of the most peacefuls guys in existence as enemy.

Second, How did they do it? ignoring vindicar? wild gods?
inter continental catas?
Tyrande being a 10k yeard old commander who defeated the legion 3 times being outsmarted somehow?

third, things ignored. Derek being ashes,random plot points like the san’lyn joining the horde but you would never know if you only play horde.
Or the ashvane/azshara deal.
The tidestone,the azshara trap.
How did sylvanas knew about the dagger and why she was so sure about it?

How we get from point A to point B?

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This one specifically annoys me because the book made it out that the Azerite was somehow seducing Anduin after touching it.

The only way I can see this redeemed is the whole Alliance/Horde peace is one of the lies he was suppose to tell us.

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That,… actually seems like an interesting potential upside to this whole thing.
Least for me.

The issue with this is that in BtS she wanted to raise everyone in Stormwind, not feed their souls to death or whatever. So that motivation really makes no sense in the context they’ve given now.

Who says she can’t do both

I think the simple fact that we didn’t get a WAR campaign was the biggest negative for me. After such a big opener (Teldrassil/Lordaeron) we did nothing but fish up a miraculously intact corpse to raise as a weapon, which turned out to be a fizzer, while at the same time igniting a civil war which seems in the scale of things the least objectionable.

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You kinda need them to have their souls to raise them. Probably anyway.

Can someone explain to me what the hell Valentine was for? Guy was useless.

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Feed half of the raise half then use the corpses for arts and crafts.

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Love interest for Calia and plot device for the civil war.

As a weird tangent (and I may be in the minority) … but I am sort of liking the Racial and Leadership composition of the Horde at the very least.

Thrall is back (shedding the Green Jesus nonsense). Rexxar seems to have finally committed fully to the faction. Voss, Gazlowe, and Rokhan have taken up leadership roles with their respective races. Even the ARs we’ve gotten are all great cultural additions to the Faction (even if most of their Reps are pretty lacking in development atm). Honestly, as long as Calia ends up NOT being on the Red Team (and she invalidates herself as leader of the FORSAKEN in some way) … fairly OK on the Horde composition at the end of this mess (even if a LOT of these reps need development).

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Valentine, not Derek. They literally just run into Derek by chance, Valentine was the one the campaign was actually about getting, then he just gets killed without even having any lines and nobody cares.

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Probably just filler. I mean honestly the entire WC just felt like useless filler outside maybe 2-3 quests. They needed to have the Horde players doing something until it was finally time to rebel 2.5 patches later.

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