The reason the Alliance has never had a leader become a raid boss…

Is because they’ve never addressed their own hypocrisy.

There are people in the Alliance all too happy to commit war crimes in its name. We hear from some soldiers how killing is truly all that brings them joy anymore. They will murder and siege and ransack without ever questioning what they’re doing - because they’re the alliance! They’re the good guys, right?
Right?

Garrosh and Sylvanas rose to power in response to alliance aggression. The people of the Horde were hungry, desperate, and looking for guidance; they provided it. It wasn’t good guidance, but for a lot of folks it was enough in the short term.

However, once we started seeing the long term effects of having someone like that in charge - how often they would kill our brothers and sisters of the Horde for simply speaking out - we rose up. We removed them.

Being a part of the Horde means acknowledging your faults. Your past. Your actions that have maybe even scarred the world - and pushing for a brighter future despite that. Working to not make choices that…lead to world ending disasters anymore.

The Alliance doesn’t give a hoot. As far as they’re concerned, they’ve done everything right always. Even when they abandoned the Kal’dorei at Darkshore - it was fine because the Gilneans, another refugee nation, pitched in to help them. Right. Yes. Sure.

It’s - honestly pathetic, looking back. Varian Wrynn tried his damnedest but he was an anchor in a hurricane. They’ve been human-focused for so long and everyone else has been dropped to the wayside. Varian, out of his entire cabinet - was the only one who cared. The shield of the alliance where he could be - but he was one man. Two, technically.

But look at it. The gnomes still haven’t reclaimed gnomeregan. Gilneas was only resettled because the forsaken helped. The Draenei and the Night elves have had to help themselves at every turn.

The Horde responds quickly when wounded. They do their best to care for the wounded, to strengthen their defenses and warriors, and to never let this happen again. They’re careful not to overreach.

What does the alliance do?
Bombast. Grand shows of force. Where the Horde would send a strike team, the Alliance would send a gunship. Every warrior of the Horde is important - an asset, a family member, a friend - but the soldiers of the alliance are treated like arrows to be spent.

There are a few folks, specifically, who is like to call out for their hypocrisy.

  1. Turalyon. Dude’s a freak. He watched his goddess figure try to enslave someone and get upsetty spaghetti when he didn’t let her. He’s never there for his son and he stuck his wife in jail bc she’s hearing voices.
    As a voices hearer - screw that.

  2. Muradin Bronzebeard. Moira, correctly, saw that the Dark Irons had been enslaved by elementals and sought to free them - and protect them. No one has trusted her for that. All she has ever wanted was security for ALL of her people - but Muradin hasn’t given a crap.
    In fact, he more or less condemned them to die during Blood in the Snow. He and Falstad never once Made an effort to move past that until recently - and even then I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him.

Malfurion Stormrage - most useless, most prideful, most self assured bastard in the world. He was given chosen one vibes at birth and tbh he embodies that. He’s annoying, he follows an isolationist policy when like - idk the Kal’dorei could use help??? Also he’s never around. He’s only puttering around when there’s like…idk. A small problem he can do quietly. This is my opinion pre Amirdrassil I’m so sorry I need to play that still

  1. Genn Greymane.
    deep sigh
    He’s an idiot. He’s like Malf but worse. He’s only been proactive a total of twice and a lotta that’s his drive for vengeance. He lets it blind him more than anything else - which is funny as hell considering post MoP Gilneas was empty. Neutral ground. He could’ve been organizing crap that whole time.

  2. Jaina Proudmoore
    There is a lot of innocent blood on this woman’s hands. Like I’m all for women’s wrongs but - idk for the right reason? When she’s been in her deepest, darkest moments - which to be fair were pretty life destroying -
    Her instinct was to go drown the Horde.
    Specifically the children, because they would just grow up to be members of the Horde.
    That’s faschist talk. I get she’s had a crap time but I don’t think it’d take much to tip her over the line at this point.

Out of all these folks, I want her to end up standing trial instead of dying.

All I think it’d take for most of these folks to go Garrosh is pressure. Someone to try and hold them accountable. Who doesn’t try to apologize for their behavior.

This is why I miss Vol’jin. He’d call folks out without issue.

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the passing of V-wrynn was major.

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Varian Wrynn literally exploded.

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Sure, if we just pretend like their King didn’t die, that the Kings son now King didn’t basically abandon the Alliance to do some soul-searching, Malfurion is just taking an extended nap in the Shadowlands, and Gnomes aren’t part of the Alliance, then yes they’ve not lost major leaders.

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Fandral Staghelm. Night elf racial leader until Cataclysm when Blizz needed a raid boss.

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It was. But he was the only one along with Moira who held them accountable.

I love Anduin, but he’s just a kid. He isn’t hardened by war like his father. He’s put everything he could into life and it has…burned him. He barely knows if there’s anything left of himself. There’s no one to…help him rebuild. There’s nobody in the Alliance who’d be safe to do that with, honestly. Just people who’d use him.

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Since the orcs are invaders of Azeroth…yeah, pretty much anything they do to repel the orcs is heroic.

Oh look, you changed your title.

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Yo reds, one of your loopies got loose.

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Y’all I am so sorry I need to clarify - as a raid boss. They have lever lost a major leader as a raid boss EXCEPT for Fandral. Thank you

Yeems I realized I wrote all that and didn’t even put why I wrote it asdfhjk

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Well you’re still wrong lol.
High Tinker Mekkatorque

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did we ever unfreeze mekkatorque?
There was also benedictus I guess, if we want to count him as a major leader.

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He came back at the end of Dragonflight. He even had a Big Damn Kiss onscreen with Tyrande and then they both had a family cuddle with Shandris.

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Yeah he’s actually been made king of gnomes. Y’all that was years ago he’s good. He’s got an iron man heart now too it’s rocking.

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Yeah. In BFA the mechagnomes turned him into Ironman to save him and he became king of all the gnomes.

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ah, I probably just tuned it out then.

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Oh really?
I stopped paying attention to the DF story and I’m surprised I didn’t see anything about his return posted about. But I’m glad he’s back.

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Okay.

But like

Hm.

How do I phrase this right. Because what I mean is like - nobody’s gone Garrosh.

Except Jaina. Almost.

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And thats good…

The fact that horde had garrosh and sylvanas is the problem, not that alliance didnt have those

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I’m saying that the Alliance does have folks like that, they just ignore them. We addressed our issues. Y’all gotta address yours.

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I see you changed the title of this thread, but anyway: so, Horde Raid Bosses, iirc, so far Sylvanas and Garrosh.

What have Sylvanas and Garrosh done that Alliance leaders have not done? Genocide. Hold up: genocide against their own people.

-Garrosh had a very exclusionary vision for his True Horde
-Sylvanas literally wanted as many corpses created, regardless of faction. That was her whole plan/Zovaal’s plan (I’m so sorry that Sylvanas’ arc was an innocent bystander to Zovaal’s narrative arc)

Yeah, Varian, Tyrande and Genn aren’t innocent little lambs. But they’ve never carried out whole exterminations of their own (except for the Defias, which technically precedes Varian/can also be chalked up to Onyxia).

(I’m not counting Rastakhan, I know a lot of people want to peg that on the alliance, but Rastakhan’s death was on the wall as soon as he aligned himself to Bwom’samdi. It was gonna be Zul and his followers if it hadn’t been the alliance, Bwom’samdi was always more interested in Talanji)

Edit: been getting some ‘well, actually’ about Jaina so, what I meant was:

-Garrosh: committed genocide/genocide adjacent administrative choices against both alliance/enemy combatants and reclassified Horde members (trolls, forsaken, even blood elves) as non-Horde (or not True Horde) so he could justify eliminating them as well

-Sylvanas: during the peace summit in that BFA novel (forget the name) she had forsaken citizens of undercity who wanted to continue visiting/defect with their human family members eliminated on the spot. That one is admittedly gray area. She then later admitted/we found out via expodumps in Shadowlands that her plan was to have as many living beings, alliance AND horde, killed so their souls would go to Zovaal

Jaina is a war criminal, yes. Her war crimes were not directed at humans. That’s the distinction I’m making. The closest thing to a civil-war like situation where a leader (which, I mean…does Jaina even qualify as a leader? Does she now lead Kul’tiras?) has committed genocide of their own people has been: 1) Dwarves 2) The Stormwind’s crown handling of the Defias.

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