I’ve noticed something while following the topic over the last few days.
People who support the proposed changes tend to be players who play end-game content on a MM Hunter main day to day
People who oppose the changes tend to be players who have an emotional attachment to their pet and the MM spec. Many have had their pets on MM for decades and don’t want to lose that
Obviously not everyone fits into these categories, but it seems most of the players replying do. So if MM is to move forward with the proposed changes, the emotional attachment should be addressed if nothing else out of respect for those long time players.
The question is… How? It’s not as easy as just having a talent that swaps between the two. There’s too many underlying mechanics changing. But surely there is something that could be done.
I’d agree, players are generally falling into one of those two categories. I’d be curious to see the data of how many players, not just those who have voiced their opinions in this forum, actually fall into each category.
Blizzard is deciding that the proposed changes to address the functionality problems is worth MM losing access to their pets, or how they put it, reimagining how MM hunters interact with their animal companion. According to feedback, there in lies the problem in a couple of ways.
Players don’t seem to like the new direction in theme. Being forced to use an eagle and would rather use their already existing collection of pets. Instead of spotting eagle, one solution could be to rename it to spotting companion and then in the stable, you designate which pet you would like to use for the effect.
The next problem is the functionality that pets currently offer MM hunters. Currently, whether or not you have a pet summoned, rotationally, nothing changes. However, you lose access to the pet’s ability to tank for you. This is a trickier one to solve, because the new functionality of the spotting eagle doesn’t allow for it to stay in the game space to tank for you or for the player to misdirect to it. Maybe there’s a solution here.
This expansion and Dragonflight before it, we have seen Blizzard trim button bloat by adding one effect or spell to another. Maybe, for MM hunters, new functionality can be added to Misdirect? Have Misdirect act as a Growl for the spotting eagle. If you have no other friendly target selected, Misdirect calls down your eagle for X seconds to aid you in battle holding the attention of the enemy. Something like that, you get the idea.
Couple replacing Spotting Eagle with Spotting Companion (so the player can choose whichever pet they want) and this new revised Misdirect and maybe there’s something there. Where the proposed new changes to MM can come through and maintain the current functionality of pets and which pet players want by their side.
I do think it is possible to have the great 11.1 additions with a regular pet being optional, but only if having the regular pet out makes the utility function as it does now, or, have the pet only provide negligible damage and taunt functions.
That last part, having the utility function as it is described for 11.1 but with a regular pet in use, sounds ideal, even for my own end game pvp use. A bit of pet damage to spin a flag while I’m in CC, and no CC, LoS, healing our pet, pet death and time spent resurrecting the pet, or other issues we deal with now preventing the use of current pet utility.
I don’t know if Blizzard is prepared to give MM the best of both worlds so to speak in that way.
I will say I’m very pleased to accept all the utility with the eagle while the eagle cannot be harmed or negatively effected in any way. It is, without a doubt, a better way to reliably implement the utility. Being at the cost of losing the pet I didnt want to heal, Rez, summon, direct around the battlefield, is a small ask to me.
This is what led me to trying to figure out why people object in the first place. As a mm hunter main who hasn’t used a pet in years, I couldn’t understand why people wanted a pet tank so badly.
It’s not needed for normal world mobs, I think most people agree. It’s not needed for most garden variety elites. Some bigger elites require groups to kill, but we can cheat and go BM in those cases just like a boomkin can cheat and go guardian. Some classes can’t cheat, they need a group - so we’re still lucky in that regard.
So, delves is really the only thing a pet tank could potentially be useful in. There are plenty of other caster classes who progress in delves without pet tanks. I haven’t done a ton just 8s, so I don’t know specifics of higher level delves.
There didn’t seem like any logical reasoning behind it.
That’s when I went back through about half of the replies in the original thread and a clear pattern was forming, that people who object have emotional ties to their pet. Logical arguments don’t work against emotional problems.
It’s not only the player wanting their pet to tank. It’s the flavor of a pet companion being a hunter that players seem to be hung up on.
The problem with arguing this point is players who want pets know this is true, but they are adverse to change or just simply want to keep their access to pets.
This I’d have to disagree with. Brann is getting a tank spec for healers and specs that are currently struggling with what Brann is currently capable of.
Exactly. Their concerns should be heard, but gameplay wins out for me.
Make it an optional skill in the MM tree to go this path, not a full on forced requirement. If people want it that way so badly let them have it, but leave my pets be!
The problem is with a physical pet, like BM and SV, their are factors to just having them that needs to be addressed. Pathing, does it attack, skillsets, many things go into having a pet beyond just having a pet. MM entire power structure is in mind of the pet as well.
As it was said, MM functions with or without the pet. The other specs BM and SV do not. If my pet dies as SV, I need to res it quickly. Otherwise, I lose not only DPS I lose functions and spells. As MM you do not lose any functionality without having the pet.
The Eagle is going to replicate Cunning/Tenacity functions, also there is a ability to even have Hero. So all MM hunters are losing is growl. Honestly that is not a bad trade-off.
It’s just a case of wanting to have their cake and eat it too. MM dont want any of the potential negatives of having a pet, they just want an easier time than every other RDPS soloing at no downside.
I fit into neither.
I play MM not to use a pet, at all. Not even pet animations tied to my abilities are desired. I also don’t do end-game content, because frankly most of those people are just not worth being around.
I am opposed to these changes because they remove player agency, and they shove yet another stupid pet animation into the spec.
people on other threads are making this “elegant” suggestion: tie the utilities to the hunter skill set and NOT to the pet’s. poof problem solved all around.
ok…one last thing: why do people want a cookie-cutter pet that really only has some kind of validity on long, extended fights because more often than not, out in the field, the pop-up pet winds up wandering around or just following the player to the next mob and then disappearing right when the new encounter begins. it might show up as a DPS gain in sims, but NO ONE plays to sim level, and, NOW, blizz wants to take away deliberate pets AND remove weak auras (that might possibly help folks get close to the sim level), and NO, I have never used weak auras. I’m a grunt that likes hunter pets and clicking my buttons when I see them activate on my own.
I don’t think anyone in particular asked for a cookie cutter pet. Just like I don’t think anyone in particular asked for traditional pets to be BM/SV only.
As someone who hasn’t played with a pet as MM since I returned to the game in Shadowlands, all I wanted was access to the utilities pets bring. I enjoy using my traps, slows, stuns and all of that while questing. I know it’s more work than using a pet, but the playstyle feels like it really fits an adventurer who is an expert with a bow.
However, like you said in your previous post, if those abilities were moved to the hunter, I think most people would be happy. Min-maxers wouldn’t care if someone else got pets as long as they got what they wanted. People like me have no issue with others playing differently. It would be nice to know more of the reasoning behind why they chose to implement the way they did.
I imagine a lot of it comes down to dev resources and balancing. If min-maxers for example find out it’s a .01% dps increase now to also call a blue chicken pet in addition to your eagle, next raid everyone will complain they are forced to run with blue chickens. Entire raid would be blue chickens and hunters. I, personally, am not a fan of blue chickens.
I will admit when I read the patch notes, I was excited, and I did enjoy the way they implemented it with the eagle. I like the flavor an eagle brings to the concept of being a marksman. That’s just my personal opinion and is probably highly swayed by the fact I haven’t used a pet in a long time anyway.
The issue is hunters pet is nothing more than a tank. Which unless your spec into pets it should not hold aggro, or it used only for buffs then dropped to keep the loanwolf perk. It’s just bad design. I’m looking forward to see how it plays.
Keep pet summons - make them basic pets with growl, claw, dash, bite and nothing else at all tied to them.
Make them give a 5% damage reduction for having them summoned.
If you dont like pets, then either dont summon one or dont even tame one at all and it will be 100% identical for you to if they remove pets. The damage reduction means they will never be used in dungeons or raids, only solo content where it doesnt matter. It also means they will never cause balance issues as they are truly entirely optional.
This would have no impact on any other change now or in the future and avoids any balancing issues.
You say this but unfortunately there has been EXTREME hostility from a lot of people about exactly this. it literally wouldnt affect them in any way - it just seems a bunch of people cant enjoy something unless they know others are upset and hurt by it.