I wouldn’t even call this a season because it’s extremely short, we aren’t even going to get but maybe 1 full rotation on the affixes for M+ before its over, yet all the hoopla over the uncapped valor, the dinar system, it’s just so asinine that people are so uptight about this when it literally means nothing other than to keep people from taking a break for 2-3 months while the expansion gets wrapped up.
JJust Looking at whining threads in GD forums especially Asmonbald followers.
Whether you look at Warcraft Logs, WoW Progress, or any other site for data, it’s less about the population and more about the overall trend you see.
If M+ participation drops by 10% but yet raid participation drops by 50%, unless we were somehow able to know the true population drop, then the only thing we can determine is that Raid is in a much dire position and that’s it. We can surmise potential reasons all day long, but it could be a host of reasons why.
That’s why I looked at BFA and SL, not just SL to justify the trend. It’s far more critical to see the repeated trend and the participation expansion over expansion as well as patch over patch, because that has a much larger meaning showing fewer people are engaged for whatever reason.
What’s important is regardless, what they’re doing isn’t working. If M+ decline is far less substantial than its raid counterpart, then that tells me that M+ shouldn’t be touched but rather focus should be put on Raiding so that it’s in a much better state than it currently is.
- Should lockout strategies be adjusted?
- Should raid design be made into smaller, more consumable chunks?
- Should raids drop more loot per player?
- Should encounters be easier the higher you progress in difficulty?
There’s so many things to consider to make Raid attractive without actually touching any other system in the game, if that is what makes raiding more healthy overall.
What’s important is regardless, what they’re doing isn’t working. If M+ decline is far less substantial than its raid counterpart, then that tells me that M+ shouldn’t be touched but rather focus should be put on Raiding so that it’s in a much better state than it currently is.
If raiding has to die, then so be it. Forcing people to do content doesn’t end too well. Just look at torghast, pretty sure participation rates plummeted when it became optional.
This largely is the downfall to a lot of these threads. A lot of people (myself included) don’t want to have to show up someplace 2-4 nights a week to get their toon geared like we used to when we had more free time. M+ is ‘sign on and do content immediately, then sign off when you feel like it’ content. An aging playerbase’s lifestyle might just be more in line with that than raiding these days.
If H Raiders want more people to run content with, maybe they should quit spamming trade chat with goofy statements like ‘LF Exceptional players’ then requiring trialing, logs, voice interviews, and applications to run content with them. lol I was going to join a raiding guild because I was starting to miss raiding a little bit like a year ago, then looked over all the requirements and just said never mind. They’ve been killing themselves by not adapting when better options became available, IMO.
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If H Raiders want more people to run content with, maybe they should quit spamming trade chat with goofy statements like ‘LF Exceptional players’ then requiring trialing, logs, voice interviews, and applications to run content with them. lol I was going to join a raiding guild because I was starting to miss raiding a little bit like a year ago, then looked over all the requirements and just said never mind. They’ve been killing themselves by not adapting when better options became available, IMO.
Find the right guild. Besides, a guild that lets everyone in will die way faster than a selective one.
My point is, exceptional players don’t H raid–it’s moderate content just like timing a 15. They take themselves too seriously.
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The people who are completely disinterested in M+ after raid were always going to be the ones who would raid log every night, imo.
The mythic raid scene is dying because the last raid was ridiculous with personal responsibility and average mythic raiders can’t handle having that because they’re too busy screeching about their parses. People would rather play with their friends, and usually that doesn’t add up to 20 people. Especially on servers that don’t have the bodies of competent players to do so.
Plus, right now, there’s really no reason to do the raids once you’ve gotten your slime cat.
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But see if they loosened their standards, how would they ever progress? It’s letting even worse people in when they’re already struggling.
If you require people who can orange or purple parse in your raid to defeat Heroic bosses because the rest of the crew grey parses, then I think a lot of self reflection is needed.
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Think the game design should focus on players having fun and keeping repetition and drop rates reasonable so players aren’t chasing the reward instead of the experience, or worse are enduring burnout for a reward
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More like without standards, it’ll be even more people added to the grey parse roster. (Some kept around due to friends/family no doubt.)
For guilds that do heroic, the better players probably don’t even consider joining because it’s “only heroic.”
AOTC is their CE basically.
Fun for me is failing multiple times on a boss in raid. Hundreds ideally.
How will they ever know? Their content keeps dying doing things the way they’ve been doing them. Either or, I’m just giving you my personal experience with things. I’ve got a btag full of good players (3k IO, multi-glads, a few R1’s) and any time the subject has ever come up it’s always ‘I used to raid, but got sick of treating the game like a job.’ (or thereabouts, not verbatim necessarily lol)
I’m just spitballing on how Heroic raid guilds could possibly get some of the players like that into their ranks.
They get players into their ranks by becoming mythic guilds. (Or more realistically, I don’t think they can.) Imagine being in a guild that is worse than what’s easily puggable.
You know how the forums says “run your own key?” This is kinda like that. They’re running their own raid instead of complaining how groups won’t take em. And when people group together, they don’t accomplish much due to lack of skill or because no one is seriously trying.
This exactly.
You see, I’ve seen most guilds that I’ve been in using Mythic + as a way to help gear up the raid team. So whenever I see a forum post like OP made I kinda disregard it because it’s not a one or the other situation. These systems can co-exist.
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Mythic raiding drops 304-311. Mythic plus caps at 298. IF your crying that your easy normal and heroic raiding isn’t dropping 304 then play Mythic raiding.
Ok, what about top 30 guilds?
They have video guides to watch, have several weeks worth of gear, and still have multiple bosses of 100-300 pulls?
Maybe they should just kick the dead weight that can’t watch the existing video kills man.
people concerned about “deadweight” probably don’t understand experience. Top 50 are at a place already where the top 10 could 19 man with the same ilvl.
All the bis pieces come from raid for m+
Separate m+ and raid gear. Make m+ gear worse in raid and higher ilvl in dungeons just like pvp gear.
And give a dungeon bonus for having 2 dungeon trinkets equipped.
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