The problem is not LFR

The cat problem is not LFR. The problem is accessibility and this is a problem with raiding in general right now. If there is no group forming in the group finder when you want to play, too bad.

The infrastructure for these communities is not as strong as it was. The group finder was too successful and killed Openraid/zerg. Discord, if they intend to move into this role, is not fully there yet.

Group finder needs to support scheduling. This was the strength of Openraid and why pugging got so strong in MOP and WOD, you could sign up for something a week in advance and make time in your real life. This is a serious problem for forming “community” raids and finding people who are willing to spend a couple hours doing content. I think this has also contributed to the dent in the raiding population, because it complicates scheduling in new temporary players that might decide to become a permanent member of that group.

LFR only fills the gap because it breaks the raid up into more bite sized pieces which are easier to manage time wise, and automates the gathering of class roles.


Here’s Blizzard’s solution.


No different than when nobody’s queuing for LFR

Wrong. You can queue for LFR and get up to do something else, you will have your place in queue. You must continually troll LFG to find a group. If anything this shows the advantage of having a system that will reserve a space for you ahead of time.


Funny, some people seem to do that even after getting in.




If you make the group, you can run around all you want and click everyone in the order they ask to join.

At least 2 players in almost every LFR jailer run I’ve been in have cast 1-2 spells at the boss, then just run into a hole and died on the pull.

That is still someone who doesn’t get to AFK and wait for their turn to pop up. It is also kind of what happens in normal pugs anyway, but you’re waiting on tanks again and the person responsible for inviting has to sit there and manually watch for that tank to queue. The second part is why most people don’t want to do this.

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I just… wow. I honestly can’t argue with this. Can’t AFK is the issue.

If it takes 45 minutes or more of setup to play the game… yeah, that is a pretty serious issue in spite of your sarcasm.

If it’s taking 45 mins it’s either no one wants to play currently or doesn’t want with your group. Unless Blizz forces people to play at certain hours and with people they don’t wish to, this will continue to happen.

Couldn’t you join a community and sign up for raids on the calendar? They’re cross-realm and cross-faction, same as group finder, and most I’ve looked at seem welcoming of just about anyone.

It’s not even about that. It’s the fact that Friendship Moose runs were one boss.

Fated raids are every single boss.

There aren’t going to be Friendship runs of this. No one can logically have runs like this with how Fated rotation is set up and how these runs need to be done. It’s just not feasible.

Friendship runs had different lockouts from different groups and jumped straight to the end boss. They could take multiple people during a week. It’s not remotely possible to take multiple people for a full clear on a rotation schedule like this.

Blizz failed at comprehending how this works.


Piece of cake for even the most casual of player if only they could

No. It isn’t. You aren’t everyone. You don’t get to speak for others. People can’t “sign up in advance.”

Here’s my problem: ilevel.

PuGs are notorious for wanting people to have an average ilevel at or above the raid.

The ilevel for the normal fated raids are 278-285.

The ilevel for the LFR version of Sepulcher of the FIrst Ones is 246.

The max ilevel you can get from ZM is 252.

There’s a minimum ilevel gap of 26 that non-raiders are going to be facing.

But of course, Blizzard knows this, which is why many people will just give up after being constantly rejected and just buy a couple tokens to get three paid carries and be done with it.

There are tons of casual raiding communities out there for all time zones. I advise people to look for one that fits them if you want the slime cat. Open the Guild and Community window (J) and “Find a community” one that fits raiding and what your looking for.

It’s almost like LFR is the perfect bandaid for the obvious lack of infrastructure for supporting this kind of system.

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I know.

Fact. This is why the communities were formed. This is why the source of this problem is the accessibility of such players to find each other right now. Not LFR.