How can the alliance make mistakes when the horde is so terrible, we literally cant make mistakes till the horde changes for the better, the alliance is always justified, and the horde is always gonna be the villain, UNLESS things change. which horde players dont want they literally resist being good you know why the alliance is good, cause they are selfless, cause they put azeroth before themselves, every alliance race does this, and till the horde does the same, we are just gonna do the same dance over and over.
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you are wrong, the alliance is not flawless.
one of the alliance worst mistakes is believing that the horde could change.
maybe we should have sided with daelin after all.
Or you could easily flip that question on its head? Perhaps the reason that the Horde has to be so much the antagonists, is because the Alliance isnt allowed to be. Blizzard is afraid of tarnishing the Blue Teams rep long enough for them be the antagonists for the Horde in a friggen faction conflict expansion. Its … truly insane. You revel in the fact that the Alliance is flawless paragons of moral virtue, yet are surprised that the Horde are made the opposite extreme.
You have absolutely zero productive suggestions for the Horde, beyond them becoming convenient for the Alliance. You genuinely have nothing positive to bring to the table, because you’re seemingly so absorbed in the Moral Absolutism that Blizzard has allowed your Faction.
why? do you think that will make us angry?
because i am pretty sure that they aren’t scared of making us angry.
in fact, they probably do it for sport. “how much we can anger the alliance player today” i bet they say.
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cause its easier to make the horde the villain when they are aggressive and have things like the blight
We have the blight because its the only item of power the horde has. The horde army is nothing compared to the alliance, this was proven time and time again at the broken shore, WoT, UC, and every single battle in bfa. Even worse, the only army worth a darn on the horde side is…drumroll please…the forsaken!
We also dont have any powerful characters.
Powerlevels dont mean squat, for all the power the alliance has, it didnt stop the horde from doing what it does in bfa did it, the burning still happened, theramore still happened, lol imagine thinking powerlevels amount to anything in this story.
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and yet, the NE managed to nearly stop the entire horde invasion of WoT with a 8 to 1 disadvantage, getting surprised attack, and being hit by superweapons.
Meanwhile, the horde at nearly every ADVANTAGE in the battle of UC and still lost.
So yes, powerlevels are extremely relevant when one sides loses only when it has every disadvantage and the other side loses when it has nearly every single advantage.
It continues a constant narrative throughout wow, the alliance is strong, the horde is pathetically weak. The Broken shore ALONE proves this.
Yeah, I actually think it would. More specifically, I think that if there was one thing the Alliance Playerbase has been spoiled rotten by, its the fact that Blizz has this tendency of going way out their way to justify anything that is even slightly gray; while never doing the same for the Horde. The Alliance expect that sort of justification for their actions, and they will certainly hyperfixate on Alliance tragedies … while kind of diluting Horde ones. I guess because we deserve it
A good example of this is comparing Taraujo, with Theramore. Both are considered tragedies, but look at how they are framed. Taraujo was not an active combatant town, that was merely considered a threat to a potential supply route the Alliance wanted to put through the Barrens. It was training Hunters and Warriors for the Horde, but it was primarily a civilian town … and the Alliance’s attack resulted in nearly total civilian casualties. However, not only did Blizz have Baine just absolve this issue away as “A Valid Military Target”, but they also went to great lengths to make us sympathize with Hawthorne and his “intent”.
If you look at Theramore though? It was a city that had actively invested itself in the Alliance war effort. Not only was the city itself supplying the Alliance, but Northwatch Keep was almost entirely comprised and led by Theramore citizens. Baine also warned Jaina of the impending attack, to pressure her to evacuate her citizens before the attack actually started; she was given time … which she used instead to bolster the cities defenses. On top of this, Garrosh’s plan came at the expense of the Horde forces on the ground; with him allowing the city to turn into a Horde meatgrinder … resulting in massive Horde casualties before the bomb.
The framing of these two events are night and day. One, the city that was a valid military target, and was actively part of the War effort on multiple fronts, was a massive tragedy. We had entire stories focused on how villainous the Horde was for destroying the city, and how much poor Jaina and Vareesa were effected. On the flip side, the focus on Taraujo was instead on Hawthorne … and how he was a really good guy! Just … so good. And that the destruction of that town was just a bungle of unfortunate mistakes against a bunch of nameless, faceless cows that their own leader immediately noted as mere casualties of war. Not like some cute Gnome apprentice…
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yeah cause everyone gets a +1 to attack when defending against a villain, just like orc warriors get one shot skills when fighting demons that enslave them, its almost like the good guys tend to win
funny enough, this only seems to apply to the alliance. Whenever the horde are the good guys, guess what? we still get smashed. See broken shore for more details where our leader was killed by a rando
the alliance lost there too lol
the alliance retreated while they still had the upper hand fighting against the tougher front AFTER the horde was decimated. The Horde, meanwhile, was fully routed against the easier front.
The alliance was literally winning.
Yes it was. same as theramore. because the military is to protec their people in the first place.
That war was started by the horde.
Are you going to deny that jaina did had make sacrificies for peace?
or you expected that she randomly decided to be agressor towards the horde?
is that what you want?
This is from the alliance perspective because in the horde side of things you see him as “the butcher of taurajo”.
Of course they are, what do you expect from an alliance city? that they don’t help their allyes?.
So you think that she should have abandoned it and run away like a coward?
Yeah comparing an small outpost like camp taco with an actual city. that did in fact helped the horde in the past in the hopes for peace that the horde betrayed because garrosh wanted the whole kalimdor for himself and the horde.
if you think that jaina of all people decided that it was a good day to start a kalimdor conquest and kill all horde even when she did not sided with her own father is what should have happened i don’t know what to tell you because that would not even be the same character.
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Yeah, and your responses to my comparison between these two events proves exactly my point. You missed the entire idea, the extreme disparity between the intentional focus and framing of these two tragedies, and instead did your best to validate and justify why one event is more OK than the other. Its actually sort of amazing. 
You expect total justifications for your actions. You expect Blizzard to go way out of its way to dilute any morally grey act the Alliance commits. You cannot fathom a situation where the Alliance is allowed to act without the Moral High Ground. Even your calls for “Eye for an Eye” … and actual calls for Genocide … come with the expectation that the Alliance has the Moral High Ground in those acts; and will retain them after they commit them. They’re justified in wiping out entire peoples, and the Horde would be wrong to fight back in response. Its wild.
yeah totally they where gonna beat the legion when the whole thing was a trap
Tell me again why it was portrayed in the wrong the way when it makes absolute 0 sense for jaina to be the agressor in that scenario when ever since wc3 she has been someone who wanted peace above all.
Maybe it could make sense if her people needed to eat or things like that but that would requiere for blizzard to care for anything else that isn’t “the horde finding itself” that takes all the focus.
don’t get me wrong droite, i do not care about the moralhighground anymore. that stopped being a thing after teldrassil.
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You are deflecting again. You asked why Blizzard would protect the moral integrity to such degrees, and implied that you would not get mad if you were allowed to be the antagonist in a story. However, I gave you an amazing example between how differently Blizz deliberately frames a tragedy on the Horde and a tragedy on the Alliance, and your response showed me that … no … you still desire the moral high ground. You claim not to want it, but your constant insistence and attempts to justify even the stark difference between how Blizz handles a Horde and Alliance tragedy … is evidence enough of that.
As for the Horde Finding itself plot point … it was clearly lipservice. I know a lot of people were distracted by the fancy cinematics, but when you realize that the said “Honor Horde” was not allowed to act against Sylvie until it was convenient for them to do so; it means that Sylvie’s personal narrative was far more important than the Horde’s identity. The Horde “Finding Itself” was just another excuse to settup Shadowlands, that came heavily at the detriment to the Factions Identity. The Horde Faction was no more important to the story than the Alliance. This was Sylvie’s story … never forget that.
i don’t mind being antagonist towards the horde.
i don’t care anymore about that, moral highground doesn’t have any use other than makes us angry more than it should when justice is denied.
not sure about that we were talking more about the cata-mop era where blizzard clearly cared much more about the horde than the alliance. or you will deny this?
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Cata? No … I would argue that it was Blizz equaling out a few things. The Alliance started out with so much preferential treatment it was a joke. The leveling experience on the Horde was so tacked on, it was laughable. The Faction itself had zero story relevance post lvl 40. Long story short, the Alliance was spoiled rotten in Vanilla. I also remember working more for Malfurion than Thrall; who really only showed up in a few demented cutscenes, and a few quests.
As for MoP … well I wont argue that it wasn’t a Horde Expansion. I mean it did result in us being forced to slaughter our own people for half an expansion, and being portrayed as antagonists until that point … but you are not wrong that it was a Horde expansion. WoD in contrast is an abomination that vomited all over established Horde lore and characters; all so we could kill more evil orcs. Nothing like removing the tragedy from the savagery of the Orcish peoples.