Yeah, but Goblins dont care about Kezan. Bilgewater Harbor is perfectly fine. We got a capital city after losing our last, seemingly over night. If Blizz is going to invest the assets in giving GIlneas back to the Worgen, then give the Forsaken or NEs something cool. We Gobs, if nothing else, got the royal treatment in BfA.
So your saying we can get something without the horde getting anything?
Yeah? I dont really care about equality. I care about racial narratives and stories that I think would be a positive direction, as long as those stories don’t infringe too horribly into other PC race’s stories. I am perfectly fine with the Goblins current status by the end of BfA. As poorly as other groups, the NEs, the Horde, the Alliance were treated … we little Green folk were treated fairly well.
I want the Gilneans to get their capital back. I want the Sin’dorei to have a glorious, repaired Silvermoon. I want the Draenei to reclaim Tempest Keep, and bring back their people to their forever homes on Azeroth. I want the NEs to have a new, amazing capital built into Mt Hyjal. I want the Gnomergon gnomes to finally get their Gnomergon back. I want the Forsaken to get Stratholme revamped in their aesthetics, due to its positioning, history, and infrastructure.
I just want good stories, and since I prefer Horde stories … I want good Horde stories, that allows the faction be healthy and grow. And that includes the Forsaken, as I do consider those that remain as part of the Horde … and honestly want fantastic stories for them going forward too.
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Fantantic stories at alliance expense, I rather have the balance blizzard likes to maintain. and common sense in the story, since no one in the right mind in the story would reward forsaken for what they did.
I think you’re too fixated with balance and things remaining “fair”. Especially since your interpretation of “fair” seems to prioritize making the Horde as convenient as possible for the Alliance. At this point, I have spent the last year an half being told that I should feel bad for the story that the writers forced my faction to go down; and that as “restitution” I should just be satisfied with a story theology of the Horde being constantly restricted, regulated, and confined by the Alliance. Not just in terms of territories, but in terms of potential stories.
I’ve grown numb to it. I just don’t care anymore. Its just non-stop, unsympathetic demands about how I should feel bad and we need to sacrifice for the Alliance, and remain convenient for their story. Even neutral territories where the Alliance has no real influence cant go to the Horde, because even if it would provide amazing, positive stories for the Faction … the Horde getting anything is apparently equivalent to Blizz taking from the Alliance?
I mean the alliance sacrifices for the horde all the time, literally 2 wars now when it was done, and horde players are unwilling to do the basic things that are required to be a hero, like being selfless helping others outside the factions. This is literally why horde is primed for villian bats again.
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Everything the Night Elves had was shared with the Worgen. And they’re the only noteworthy Alliance race in Kalimdor, while the Draenei and the Myst Isles might as well not exist.
Just give the Tauren their allegedly ancient Tauren lands in which they never settled, plus Un’goro so the Horde can stop invading Nelf land for the wood they desperately need for their hideous cities, and problem solved.
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Of course they are, because Blizz is terrified to ever, EVER tarnish that sterile, blinding white image the Alliance has. They are flawless paragons of every conceivable moral virtue after all.
So why is it wrong for the horde to become paragons too?
Its not, but the Justice League always needs an enemy. So whenever the Faction Conflict rears its ugly head, well … they can’t tarnish the Alliance’s rep with even the slightest touch of moral ambiguity; so they hit the Horde villain bat button to ridiculous degrees. Somewhere along the line someone decided that the Horde HAD to be the enemies of the Alliance, but the Alliance can NEVER be the enemies of the Horde. Because that would mean the Alliance needs to be the antagonists in someone else’s story, and being antagonistic … isnt a virtue.
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Its not wrong. They (the producers/writers) are either unwilling or unable to write it that way.
But it seems horde players dont want it either, I mean droite argues against giving up the blight, So is it really wrong of the writers to keep villain batting the horde when the players are resistance to all the good horde characters and traits of being a good faction?
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The Darkspear were allowed to reclaim Echo Islands in the pre-expansion event to Cataclysm. The Gnomes were not allowed to reclaim Gnomeregan.
Highmountain is not a city, no. Thunder Totem is.
Neither the Telogrus Rift nor the Vindicaar are cities, not any more than the Protectorate Watch Post in Netherstorm is a city or the Skyfire was a city.
In canon it is a Horde city and those mobs are no longer hostile to the Horde in lore.
I think Allied Races are fair game, as long as they have a home city they can go back to live in. So I’d even say Stromgarde is fair game.
So, I’d say:
Horde: 8
Orgrimmar
Thunder Bluff
Echo Isles
Quel’Thalas
Bilgewater Harbor
Suramar
Thunder Totem
Dazar’alor
Alliance: 8
Stormwind
Ironforge
Aerie Peak
Exodar
Shadowforge City
Boralus
Stromgarde
Mechagon
People who don’t have a home city to live in:
Forsaken
Mag’har Orcs?
Vulpera
Gilneans
Night Elves
Gnomes
Void Elves
Lightforged Draenei?
The Ma’gnar Orcs and Lightforged Draenei could arguably have homes in Orgrimmar and Exodar respectively, though.
Frankly what really throws things off is the Wildhammer Dwarves and the Arathi Humans having home cities, but neither taking up a playable Race slot.
No, I argue against giving up the Blight with nothing to replace it. All you do is argue in favor of stripping things away from the Horde, but never replacing those voids you create with ANYTHING. None of your suggestions are ever constructive when it comes to the Horde faction, they are almost always destructive; or prioritizing making the Red Faction as convenient as possible.
I don’t mind giving up the Blight, which is why I’ve been pushing the idea that the Forsaken can maybe start making use of the now Lich King less scourge. Freeing minds to bolster their numbers; maybe diversifying the types of undead they have in their ranks by freeing not just humans and elves. The reason I am so supportive of Stratholme as their new capital is in service of this, because the still unrevealed “Northern Lordaeron” zone is canonically supposed to hold a massive port. A port which the Forsaken can use to transition to Northrend as they need to.
Are you suggesting forsaken get all of northrend now? lets get rid of the blight then and replace it with something reasonsable.
No, but they can certainly use the resources of it. My god, I understand that you hate the Forsaken as a concept and that you seriously cannot fathom a story for them going forward that isn’t just them waiting around to die out; but try to widen your gaze just a little bit. The Forsaken do not need to settle Northrend, but they can make better use of one very specific resource up there; that is of no use to any other species on Azeroth. The now Lich-Kingless Scourge.
They can get back to basics, their roots, and start putting in the hard work to free those minds from that mindless mass that can still be salvaged. Those that cannot, that are too far gone, well … the Forsaken are always in need of parts to keep their bodies maintained. There are undead Giants; Nerubians; Vrykul; Elves; Geists; etc… up there. There are even a few remaining necropolis floating around like Naxx that could be re-purposed for something functional. There is possibility!
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The forsaken already have more land than the horde, they are already stronger than most of them do the blight, all I hear for you is the forsaken should just keep getting more and more wmds and stay evil, this is why I kind of see your points moot when it comes to removing the villain bat from the horde.
And yet I’m making the argument that the Forsaken should permanently lose all holdings in Silverpine (for Gilneas), Hillsbrad (for Dalaran), and Arathi (for Stromgarde). My only suggestion is perhaps they be allowed to move inland to a city that takes them away from their contentious neighbors, and gives them the infrastructure needed to finally do something truly noble. Freeing the minds of those that can still be freed; who’s had their free will stolen from them for nearly 15 years. They can give up the Blight for that opportunity.
But … that can’t happen. All i hear from you is destructive suggestions for the Forsaken. There has never, once, been a single positive solution for the continuation of their racial story from you; no matter how much you complain that I fixate on letting them keep WMDs. Here I am suggesting that they give up territories to Human Kingdoms and the Alliance and replace them with two territories they should have had since BC … so they can start a new journey and save untold amounts of lives that have had their existence stolen from them.
This is a very positive, yet still very Forsaken, path for them to go; and absolutely means that under leaders like Voss, Tattersail, and Velanora they’ll become a race that is at least more compatible with the rest of the World. No Blight, No Necromancy, just making the best of a resource that is already there; and maybe saving some people from eternal torment while they’re at it. Why exactly are you opposed to this? Well, because it means “giving” something to the Forsaken that is positive; rather than just “taking” from them for sake of some deranged sense of “equality”.
the forsaken getting all the plaguelands is more land than they have now, I know how the map is. its not postive you delete the argents for no reason other for selfish forsaken expanison, again, horde players dont know what sacrifice is, funny since you guys lost a bunch of major characters and still unwilling to become paragons like the alliance.
I’m not deleting the Argents at all? THEY ARE NOT A NATION! They are not a political body, and they dont have to go anywhere! They can just continue healing the land and shift just a bit for the Forsaken to rebuild into something productive; and be away from the Gilneans that want them dead, and the BEs their closest territorial allies. They can stay right the hell where they are!
You truly only do see things in Black and White don’t you? There are only extreme paths for you, and nothing in between. Though, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by a person who so clearly revels in the fact that their faction has less moral ambiguity than the Teletubbies. And as a point, making mistakes means having opportunities to learn. Having flaws, means having room to grow. The Alliance doesn’t make mistakes they are allowed to learn from; and they sure as hell aren’t allowed flaws to let them grow … just maintain the status quo.