If M+ is too difficult, you can always try to get the same ilvl gear from Mythic Raiding. 
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Well content is rewarding pretty good gear I think that’s a good excuse for it to be hard but I get not everyone will agree. I do expect some tuning will still happen to make them (M+ dungeons) easier but it’s not like being accountable in my opinion in hard content is a bad thing. The game always will be better to be played with a premade and there’s no escape to that.
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Nah, I’m happy for the tank nerfs because I was absolutely sick and tired of tanks running through dungeons and pulling everything and its mother just because they could.
It made dungeons far less fun. It’s about time Blizzard did something to address that and give tanks an ego check.
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More important would be to make some tuning to make it either same easy or same hard for all tanks. Pallies feel a bit “lost” currently at the bottom or more like below the bottom of the foodchain 
Paladins are underdogs for me, with the dh nerfs if they were comparable their interrupts would pull them way ahead. Yes you might end up kiting a bit more but I don’t think they’re in a desperate situation, the big problem with them seems more on the mana side which I guess is a bit weird.
If you want to equalize the tanks, count me in. We can start by removing the silence & interrupt from Avenger’s Shield.
Idk what it is with the m+ community and punishment enjoyment.
“ahhhhhhhh! 4 deaths and the key is a brick on a 11 ahhhhhhhh! yeah!”
like i feel like dying in itself is enough punishment itself. Like why do you need to play perfectly in order to time a key (especially when perfect play isnt possible"
10,000 gold says you rage at the tank for kiting, despite the fact that they’ll have to kite to survive.
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Keys used to be a bit more tight on timers at the beginning, I feel df was particularly lenient on timers so they’re tightening them a bit. Maybe it’s because I timed a bit too many dungeons with 20+ deaths, I think my record is around 34.
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Ok and so ovbiously that called for the extreme opposite which is if you have a single wipe the key is over?
You will end up kiting a lot and kiting should never be a thing for tanks unless it is part of an encounter mechanic.
Paladins are currently in a pretty crappy (I did mean to use the other banned word…) position compared with the other tanks and that shouldn’t be. We’re wearing plate armor and a shield and are by far the weakest tank spec…kinda ironic. (in a bad way)
But yeah, the mana thingy is another problem. There are DD specs out there with mana as a resource not needing mana potions, but I’ll have to carry potions with me in the future… 
All tanks have their own specific toolkits which other tanks don’t have, but the survivability shouldn’t be different.
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I don’t expect a single wipe to mean that a key will be over but yea 10+ deaths will probably mean that you don’t in a key over +10.
On beta there’s not much pull a blood dk needs to kite, blood dks are still king when it comes to self-sustain.
Yoda and the like the top end players are barely timing and many times not timing + 12s and 13s with like 3-4 deaths.
Imagine the average player
People are also not max geared and a +12-13 is pretty massive with the affixes change.
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I’m still talking about prot pallies (I main one)
I don’t even have a blood dk…I play DK only as frost. ^^
Is this talking about the original tank nerfs for tww or is there another round I haven’t noticed today?
If it’s the former, tanks still feel strong as hell as we are today.
Sure, I understood the “you” was addressed to me. But yea non-bear/blood dks are probably expected to kite a bit, not a lot at least up to +10. And on that ground paladins are pretty great to hold aggro at range so it’s not the worse for them.
And it still shouldn’t be…especially not with a Plate + Shield class. It is absolutely ridiculous. I remember running away from mobs in SL S1. That is no fun at all.
That’s why I say they still have some work to do with their balancing. Prot Pally is basically the anti-meta with the current tuning.
Your idea that it matters they are wearing plate is dumb. You should move on from that.
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Prot paladin I think is still the tank that mitigate the most damage and funnily blood dks have the less armor out of all tanks but are still wearing plate (not sure if boomkin got more armor than blood dks but that was the case in BFA). At the end it’s the kit they gave them and avenger shield is just that much defining.
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