The Path of Evil (Character Discussion)

Wyrmrest Accord
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Hey guys! Being the altoholic I am, I’ve decided to make a character recently that is, without question, an evil character.

An evil character that will never be discovered while IC, and that led me to wanting to make a discussion about it.

What it means to roleplay as an evil person.

We are all (I think) IRL humans. Evil is a subjective subject. What is evil to one person is not evil to another. To really dig in and make an evil character, I sat back and thought about what it would mean to be someone that, almost universally, would be seen as an evildoer.

An evil character, in the context of a universe like World of Warcraft, can range from anything to insidious mastermind working behind the curtain, to an all-powerful warlord hellbent on destruction.

Obviously, there are RP situations for both types of characters, and there are obviously other varieties. The important thing to keep in mind is that each of these ‘evil’ archetypes have a motive which lead them to doing the things they do.

Most of these characters, from a motivational standpoint, are self-serving. Is that really evil? Again, it mostly depends on the culture. A self-serving ruler might have the ambition to get things done and takes the larger cut of the spoils, as they did the foot work. Where does personal ambition cross the line?

If an evil character does good things for personal gain, are they still evil? If, say a warlock, which drains the souls and corrupts the land in the pursuit of power, uses their knowledge of darker magics to cleanse curses and save farmland from a plague they can counter, does that act as a sort of balance to their dark deeds? They still harvest souls. They still corrupt minds, hearts, and lands. They deal with demons.

Ren’dorei, as a race, can almost universally be seen as an ‘ends justify the means’ people. Willing to embrace a cultural taboo for personal power… but use that universal power to help people and keep the real darkness at bay. One turning their nose up to their methods is understandable, but was the Sin’dorei exiling them and calling them traitors justified? The exiling can be argued for, as it was to keep the Sunwell safe, but labeling them as traitors when the Ren’dorei were forsaken by their people? Their faction?

I’m kind of getting off track here, but a quality backstory for an evil character can be crafted simply from bitterness and strife in the lore of a race and class. The main point I’m striving for here is:

Why is evil done so poorly?

Now hear me out. Most of the RP I’ve seen here in the RP scene, both Alliance and Horde, has been done almost exclusively in the open. Blatant and without due caution or care. A second generation DK going rogue in the streets of Stormwind, a Garrosh-sympathizer blantantly attacking and demeaning those they deem lesser.

This isn’t to discourage those types, oh no, I think the RP scene could do with some Final Fantasy-esque villains to deal with In-Character! But, like, that’s all you really see with openly evil characters. You never see the type of evil character that is keeping to the law of the land. The type of evil where a guard scowls and froths with rage seeing them, but can’t arrest them as they have done nothing wrong.

The evil that makes friends frequently. The evil that gets drinks bought for them. The evil that’s a joy to be around. The evil that never apologizes for what they are, what their goals are, or what they’re willing to do to those that cross them, and yet, will NEVER be found with a criminal record. The evil often hired to tend to the tax books and the guard registry. Lawyers, bounty hunters, military generals.

The evil that drips charisma in public, and with blood in private. Hell, not even dripping blood! The political type of evil. Everyone knows they are self-serving and will stop at nothing to get what THEY want, damn the cost… but will do so with a charming smile and a wink.

Is it the nature of RP that all evil must be broadcasted? I’m honestly curious as to how the RP scene views evil characters. Success stories, tales of warning. Let me see your thoughts! :smiley:

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Because part of playing “evil” has to open up the risk of accepting consequence where a punishable outcome cannot be enforced. At the same time there are those who are absolute zealots about “punishing” characters who are evil so they can be heroes and rush into conflict resolution.

It’s a terrible feedback loop where you have people who want to act “twirl moustache evil”, tell all of their plans on a rooftop, and evade the goody-two shoes in a cloud of smoke…forgetting that even in a mildly less serious setting like WoW, that’s not entirely workable or fun to interact with. People don’t like their character’s always being made fools to fulfill the Bond criminals power fantasy.

But it’s even less fulfilling to have orchestrated a solid plot and storyline to be thwarted because the Paladin “sensed your malicious intent” just because your MRP hinted at your character being less than savory. And in a game where we are conditioned to always uproot villainy for rewards everyone is already leaning in that direction.

I think villains’ are best when playing with them, whether in support or against, is exciting for everyone involved. You want to see what plans are coming next, who they interact with and how they challenge your character to look at things in a different perspective. They’re devils you know and love, sometimes love to hate. And then on the player end, persons they you trust to work well to draft a story that people feel content to work with in the end.

I’m only highlighting this because I’m bitter that this trait was hijacked from the Blood Elves and neutered them into being another stereotypical “pretty” race.

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I have more thoughts but one of the things I see brought up a lot is “evil characters have to be open to consequence.” I would argue that while this is true, getting other players to ALSO be open to your evil consequences is another big hurdle.

No one likes to get beaten. But it’s hard to be scary when all the good guys just want to use you as a punching bag without letting you set up any threat level in return, if that makes sense.

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Loin cloths are of pure evil.

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In theory, I’ve long wanted to do… Basically anything with a particular warlock of mine. I really liked the idea that he was, simultaneously, everyone’s (or most people’s) friend while in actuality developing lifelong (and needlessly complicated) plots and webs of favours to draw on so as to effectively never be directly involved with any of his numerous accomplishments but the sort of singular namesake tying them together.

The energy for that is like… Beyond impossible to recommend, it’s also just sort of laughably infeasible. The amount of time it can take just to establish a solid rapport between characters, let alone another human being, makes it incredibly difficult to actually maintain any of the sort of character in the long term.

Of course, you could always treat the character as an npc, but you’re running the same gamut of issues. Networking is hell, at least among a paradoxically antisocial community hobby like RP. You have to already be incredibly invested in any sort of plot in order to make a villainous character work and that’s before you even have to start crash testing it against other people.

Even just having an otherwise regular character that’s antagonistic can run you afoul so many dozens of types of white knights (warranted or otherwise) that it can be draining just to exist as a character that is intended to breathe (or otherwise encourage) conflict. LEt alone the reality that it’s something that takes effort, you have to have an awareness and respect if you expect to manage without breaking some core tenets about consent and if you’re someone like me who struggles with both the technical and social aspects of RP… Well, mileage varies and all that.

Anyways I don’t think I could say much that better minds haven’t said to death but if I had to tl;dr the reality is that it’s absolutely awful to strike a balance between maintaining an “evil” character that’s fulfilling to play at the same time as create an experience where your protagonists get the same. You can’t really… Do that without some incredible framework and setting that up takes a lot.

Edit; Or maybe I’m just lazy and hate effort, you decide

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difficulty, for the most part.

that kind of character isn’t even easy to make convincing on your own, not to mention when dealing with a vast social sea.

i wanna leave a little droplet of sint thoughts at the end of this that have nothing to do with those less explosive antags, but still has stuff to do with evildoers on a whole.

What drives someone to commit an act of evil? Usually in the case of violence, it’s anger. So many things can affect a person, be it their own mental woes, life crushing them underfoot, or societal issues that clash with their own ideologies. But what differences may define a person do not make them outwardly dangerous. You’re in no more danger in a room with me than say, a person who can sleep at night without too much difficulty.

What drives someone to violence, to evil, is anger. They may use their troubles as an excuse, but we can make the choice to not act out. To not lash out. Someone stepping forward to kill, to cause harm, its no different than someone lashing out in a fight.

What sort of anger drives a character down a path to evil, might I wonder? Anger at themselves? Anger at the world? Or is it just pure and unadulterated hatred?

I like thinking about these things.

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I think it’s also too easy for these villains, the ones you and Suyo are talking about, to progress into anti-heroes or outright heroes as you RP them over time.

Everyone’s the hero of their own story, and if you do it right, then they really will be the hero. Altielle started off exactly like this, meant to be manipulative and selfish beyond belief, yet someone you’d enjoy talking to. Turns out when you talk to lots of people and make friends out of them, if you’re not careful you’ll start to care and find yourself developing… shudder empathy.

It takes a steely resolve to not let that infect you. And probably a very specific goal that you cannot compromise.

So maybe that’s why these types of villains aren’t as present.

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Oh no. How embarrassing for you! I cannot imagine what is like… Seeing someone on the same footing as you! How gauche!

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It’s miserable, instead of listening to others’ problems so you can get blackmail you listen because you care that someone’s in pain :pensive:

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This character here has never been particularly ‘good’ in any sense of the word unless you ask him from his perspective. However, given that you still need people to interact with, he cannot do outright evil acts in public either. He is, in all senses of the idea, self-serving. But to serve yourself, you sometimes need to serve others.

In my opinion, evil characters that are evil for the sake of it are not enjoyable. There is no goal nor any intent to be had when your character is stealing lollipops from babies except to perhaps be a caricature.

I think this where the whole ‘evil is subjective’ thing comes into play. Striving for the destruction of a world does not sound enjoyable in a RP setting to me unless it is a plot within a guild or some other group. There are other, perhaps in a way more nefarious, things that can be done within a public RP setting much more easily and with more entertainment for yourself and others.

Although, I find all characters that focus on only one aspect to be incredibly boring to write for, so I suppose that’s part of my draw to this approach.

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This is why I utterly gave up trying to RP my oldest villain, Xansaza, in-game, because I just got tired of people casually auto-chumping him the instant they picked up on his eerie qualities. In order for a villain to be able to do villainous things, even subtle ones, there has to be some permission, some freedom to act, some understanding. In the absence of that permission, you just end up other people’s punching bag. My good characters got enough of that as it is.

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I think just how Warcraft is structured, it is hard to be a straight up villain without suffering the consequences(imprisonment or death) eventually. I bring this up because I don’t think you have to be a villain to be evil and a lot of people make the mistake the evil person=villain inherently.

An evil person can still be on the right side of things. They are just often on the right side of things for not so good reasons. I think evil is done poorly because people see evil as a personality trait or a designated role in a story. An evil person can be a pillar of the community. A decorated war hero. A loving father and family man who is kind to his neighbors while simultaneously being an immoral person in other areas of life. Perhaps that family man is also someone who stalks the streets at night and kills(gnomes, obviously). Perhaps one man’s philanthropy is a cover to something nefarious. It doesn’t even have to be something so overt.

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what is it with people on this server wanting to kill gnomes

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You raise a number of interesting philosophical and rp game-play questions, and had I more time, I’d write a great deal more concerning each one; but alas, I do not. I will, however, offer two examples (by way of cut and paste) of the approach that I have taken in the past (you can check my very short forum post history for another rp back-and-forth under the title “Disappointing”).

Of course, if you’re looking to fulfill truly evil ends and not just slavishly (even if ruthlessly) chase power for its own sake and/or childishly satisfy your ego, it will typically involve a mixture of dark soliloquies and then more subtle acts of social manipulation and sabotage that move those who are slavishly pursuing power or ego gratification (and are therefore blinded by them) to the desired wicked telos. If you are very good at it, everyone participating will have a good time and never be sure what you’re really up to until it is too late.

:

The life of every Kaldorei child burned alive this eve was our sacrifice to the Heart of Shadow, in defiance of and in service to the Light— for the Void is the hollow Heart of the Holy.

Yet, even more profound than those elven bodies consumed by our flames, even more profound than the ashes of the World Tree itself, is the ravaged soul of each and every honor-bound Orc, Tauren and Troll whose spirit was broken by her participation in our new war, having torn through Ashenvale and Darkshore with a ferocity not shown since the Orc’s demonically inspired invasion of this misbegotten world.

Our Dark Lady was careful to ensure that Teldrassil burned by their hands, making them ours. By her hand we have violated their sense of meaning and purpose so severely, defiled their honor and spirit so profoundly, that their hearts and souls will be made as undead as ours. To have ravaged this land and its noble people so savagely, without discernible purpose or benefit to the Horde, without any reasonable sense of honor, the once equally noble tribes of the Horde will be without means of justifying their actions—of living with them—even to themselves.

And as the trauma of that to which they have been party—what they have done with their own hands—comes to a crossroads with surviving the fierce vengeance of the Alliance, they will have no stories to tell themselves, no words, nor priests, nor chiefs to which to turn to give meaning to their struggle to save their now perpetually jeopardized lives…besides our Banshee Queen.

And then…oh, and then…the things their hands will do…

–

The Forsaken…how pathetic. Grieving over their loss, lamenting their suffering. Clinging obsessively to a shadow of their mortal lives with its community and profane politics; as if they held any real significance when they lived. They fail to realize that our very existence proves otherwise…and that what we have become, the suffering that we are, is the only real truth: our undeath is the perfection of being—Light extinguished…Life exsanguinated…Lawlessness’ reign …living rot…corruption personified…the apotheosis of anguish…the consummation of injustice …insanity deified…deity defiled…incarnate Decay—the remnant…the residue…of Life’s ashes that will never again permit the proverbial phoenix of hope, light and law to rise! We are Life flayed, torn and made to look upon its own evisceration in endless, unceasing horror. How de-lightful!

It is our sacred duty to evangelize.

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so there’s been a lot of good points raised in this thread, and i’d like to chime in because i am RPing an evil character in an event line i’m doing right now and he’s been the most successful villain i’ve ever written and has been highly regarded by the people who have met him.

i believe evil characters do not effectively work well as walk-up characters. i think evil characters need a lot of OOC communication and understanding. and, most importantly, i think effective evil characters have an expiration date.

evil characters don’t work well as walk-up characters because, essentially, you’re throwing yourself into an environment with gray rules and ambiguity. extremely overt evil characters who are all “Mwuah ha ha im evil” is a really annoying character to encounter. it essentially always leads to my characters awkwardly laughing and leaving. some of my characters would strike back, in other circumstances, but doing so to a random character could end with a big OOC fight and that’s just not fun.

in order for a villain to be effective they need to be able to be threatening. they need to win at least a few times. i’ve been blessed with a very rad group who are happy with my villain character winning - getting his victories - leaving them with bloody noses and abject failure. that’s not really possible if you don’t have good communication, and really this is probably an extension of the above paragraph - a sort of opposite reflection. walk-ups are bad because of low communication and a good villain only works with good communication.

a good evil character has an expiration date. it’s fun to RP with a villain, it’s fun to have an adversary, but they need to lose at some point. the current villain i’m RPing is going to die. i can even tell you the exact date he will die on. he’s an abject monster whose done terrible, evil, vile things and deserves to die. RPing him has been really great and a unique perspective, but his evil is not redeemable, and the payoff of this long arc will be him finally dying. your evil character’s expiration date doesnt have to be death, it can be anything so long as it gives some form of pay-off, but IMO it’s not an effective end if it doesn’t give some form of resolution to the whole plot thread. their redemption, their arrest, their death - something needs to happen, the comeuppance for their vile things.

anyway, i think good evil characters are possible to RP but i don’t think viewing them as normal characters is a particularly good idea. i only ever view my villains as NPCs, and it’s helped with their development and the reactions to the forces who oppose them. i hope you’ve gained something out of these rambling unstructured paragraphs.

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Before I start in earnest I wish to make a note. Instead of writing about personalized character storylines, their personalities and just in general their make-up, i’ll be focusing on the aspect of roleplaying whether it be spontaneous or pre-determined and the intricacies of how it’s planned and then how it usually goes when put into practice.

Basically; Safe to say: Roleplaying in theory is pretty easily understood, it’s “Writing collaboratively and having fun with other writers!” However when one puts it into practice and actually writes a character of determinable depth and personality, wants and dreams, it tends to become hilariously convoluted especially in such a wide-open and populous space such as this. Why? Because roleplay is convoluted, full of compromises, assumptions and grudges.

As someone who’s had multiple antagonistic, villainous characters over the years to varying degrees I found that they were and are the hardest things to actually write and roleplay with. Because a majority of what you’re doing is essentially a cross between putting your character out there for other players to interact with while also having to understand and properly predict how players want and would interact with your characters in varying terms of hostility and how they fully expect it to go down, while also toeing the line in playing it not only fairly and trying to come across as not godmodding, but also not being taken for granted and relegating your antagonistic character to something that just gets used up and tossed away because people are socially pressuring you with ultimatums, godmodding and powergaming. All the while you’re needing to identify and select roleplayers you enjoy interacting with on your antagonist character so that you could yourself start something engaging for all of you.

You have to be assertive because if you’re not you’re going to have your character reduced to a state where they can’t do anything without seeming it like godmodding or simply killed. It requires being assertive. Second-hand I remember running in a guild back in Wrath of the Lich King on Moon Guard which was primarily antagonist characters doing things like cult-ish convocations and summonings out and away from everyone at large, while in Stormwind we would play it low and go around doing interesting roleplay for people. While we did have our IC friction against multiple guilds and individuals it was largely fun and enjoyable. Except one. One guild continuously metagamed and showed up to where we were, turning everything into a pile of refuse as they actively engaged whatever we doing with the targeted intent to kill or imprison our characters. The guild, not knowing how to interact and politefully engage with these people, couldn’t keep up with the constant interruptions and attacks. People left because of it. It died in short order, about a week or two.

But the biggest thing is that this guild and likely others and the individuals that occupy them or not, they likely aren’t doing it with malicious intent. Roleplaying, again, is convoluted. It’s a bunch of niceties and amendments, compromises and give-and-take that make it work succintly. But when you inevitably engage with people who have presumptions going into RP - wherever or whatever it may be - then it will inevitably lead to problems down the road.

Presumption is where all roleplay ends. When people come in with the expectation that their character and organization is going to win. That the villain, whatever they were doing whether it be raising the dead or simply going shopping, will ceremoniously be defeated at the end of the encounter and they will continue on. When their sequence of events should trump what you have planned, because what they do so.

Antagonists need to dance around this as well. Expect how others want to proceed. How you should navigate in hindering and blocking their character attempts or goals. The problem comes is that most players don’t wish to or simply don’t want to talk Out of Character and seek a compromise and understanding before they jump headfirst into an engagement. Some writers will unceremoniously kill their characters off when you wanted to grant a heavy cut to their thigh. Others won’t get the message and will follow your teleportation with their own across Azeroth and beyond to try and kill your character off for stealing a raspberry.

In roleplay the best laid plans go to waste. The best usage of improvisation can be expelled by others not wanting to follow along or simply don’t get what you’re trying to do. No matter how much you plan. No matter how well you eloquently put it, there will always be bad-faith actors who are wishing to get their own way. It may because they feel that their character should be the one who rightly ends yours. It may be because they’re holding a grudge against you, the player. Even then it may not be incompetency on your part. Metagame, powergame; The person who wishes to ruin your enjoyment and attempts at being an antagonist can have the dynamic of being a guild leader or someone with notable gravitas who’s used to getting their way, and wants to.

This is why antagonist roleplay is hard to do. Not even going into how one could cause missteps of their own. Those who rightly enjoy antagonistic characters tend to find themselves running out of steam sooner or later because they’re hounded by the few who don’t take the message to relent and let them enjoy some monotony. They have their best laid plans ruined arbitrarily due to “Uncanny ability”. Ect.

But, when it’s done right, it can lead to a load of fun.

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Great post!

Accurately identifies the true Path of Evil: Metagaming.

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This! This right here!

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As someone who’s been playing on the “evil” side all I can say is

I dunno lol, wing it.

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I will protecc!

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