Hey I’m saying that’s an evil thing and also referencing the running gag about gnomes in loinclothes.
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I have a deep respect for people that can play villain characters, cause I can’t do it. So I’ll say this from the perspective of a “hero” character: don’t let yourself get so caught up in the moment that you forget there’s another person playing the despicable creature in front of you. A lot of people are method actors that feel the character’s emotions so they can properly convey them, but remember you have time to think about what you are writing before you put it out there. Keep a level head and communicate with one another, and everyone can have fun!
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As a general rule, I agree with all that you have said here, especially with regard to uncompromising drive in true villainy (I would call it devotion).
However, while the cliche regarding everyone being the hero of her own story might be prevalent enough to be the rule, if it is, it’s one that I’ve always broken.
Empathy is as essential to genuine evil as it is to compassionate kindness. Being in authentic relationship with another such that there is mutual trust and indwelling is the only true means of transgressive betrayal–the kind that wounds a soul so deeply so as to transform it into an agent of the monstrosity that scarred it. The deeper the genuine bond is on both sides, the greater the violation of meaning and value; for in her betrayal she not only betrays the other, she also betrays herself.
This simply cannot be done if one is merely faking it, pretending to care for some selfish material, political or carnal gain. Genuine empathy is absolutely necessary. This is true devotion.
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People will take your evil role play and map it over to your OOC personality, because it has been proven again and again… people can’t stay IC. And they can’t let IC stay IC. They cross it up all the time.
So, if you want to be evil, then just be evil. That’s all this comes down to.
Definitely hard to argue otherwise; which really begs the question as to why these people (i.e. metagamers) bother with rp at all.
I honestly think having nefarious characters to engage with leads to a more immersive world and I, myself, got that hard lesson awhile ago in character!
“The White Knight” type, the one who rushes to save anyone in peril, is a tired concept. Everyone wants to be the hero of their own story, even if it means not minding their own business and making things worse.
I had a character, a white knight type, who got someone IC killed for interfering. To me, there needs to be a healthy balance of jerks to heroes in a living, breathing world.
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Lol i agree
Who the heck is out here flagging posts? Did someone really take offense to me saying evil is not subjective?
i actually don’t think that wow RP can ever be a living breathing world due to the way it’s structured. to put it simply, due to the lack of an overseeing body, anyone is able to do or say anything. because of this, walk up rp relies a lot on good faith - and pretty much every rper i know has a story or several about their good faith interaction going south and directly into a garbage can. any villain rper will have to go into things with the hope that other rpers do not abuse abuse the lawless nature of wow RP - and it only takes a few bad actors to ruin it for the rest of us.
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Hey, that’s what I do!
I think you hit the nail on the head, though. In order to have that level of villainous subtlety, it’s sorta necessary that they wouldn’t come across as outwardly “evil” (or at least malevolent) to strangers at the bar. Even if the majority of morally corrupt characters fit into that category, it would still seem as if there were more “raah I want to crush everything” kicking about as the very definition of a vocal minority.
But then again, that’s exactly what the more subtle villains would like you to think.
And that’s just it! The more clever antagonists that you’re thinking of are precisely the sort of individuals who rather avoid broadcasting their evil doings. Antagonizing people is the last thing they’d want to do, because that only serves to get them noticed. It’s not the sort of villainy that goes around burning down orphanages – in fact, hey! They funded that orphanage! It has their name on it! Nevermind that the wealth was acquired through copious amounts of illegal alchemical sales and tax fraud.
Sure, everyone reckons that they might be a little morally dubious, but they’re one of those “necessary evils” of society. Like politicians and lawyers. Mostly because it’s too hard to get rid of them.
It’s the type of villain that, much like politicians and lawyers, you don’t find until you start digging. The smart villain isn’t gonna tell you that he sells sooooooo much bloodthistle after buying you a round of drinks. But maybe you’ve got a nosy character who enjoys the investigation of corrupt individuals, and they decide to do a little digging – bam, you’ve got a storyline.
Except, Thog “I like Garrosh and kicking puppies” Bigaxe doesn’t need a storyline for everyone to know that he’s a villain. He’s not gaming any systems or hiding behind facades, his intent is blatantly obvious and painfully one-dimensional. No one agrees with Thog unless they’re sadistic or compulsively contrarian, and everyone agrees that he’s gotta go. Thog always loses in the end, and Thog doesn’t have a carefully constructed bailout system to ensure that he stays around.
The thing about Thog is that you’ll always spot him. With your example (which I absolutely love), you won’t. If you can spot them, then maybe they’re not doing their job particularly well. Regardless, I’d like to believe that there are plenty of scheming, Machiavellian, and perfectly law-abiding characters out there – I know my guild is full of lawful evil types! And despite the extra effort that it takes to RP such a character into fruition, I think the quality of proper morally grey RP is well worth it.
(And no, Blizzard, burning down a tree full of innocent civilians isn’t morally grey. That’s Thogthinking right there.)
All true, though this is still evil done for the sake of some relative (read: petty/ego driven) good/benefit/purpose. I would suggest that the true Path of Evil is good/beneficial/meaningful acts done for the sake of Evil; which also conveniently serve to shroud the villain, allowing her to act undetected (and even be generally liked/adored). This cannot be achieved with “Thog” thinking (unfortunately, Blizz. ultimately wasn’t brave enough to make Sylvanas this kind of character and ended up giving us Garrosh 2.0-- exactly why I wrote: Disappointing - #3 by Îî-tichondrius-795388).
FTFY. 
On another server I had an evil gnome. She was helpful, courteous, and despised non-gnomes and dwarves with a deep-seated passion. I only got to display that hatred a few times, but the whispers of “Did (gnome) really just SAY/DO that?!” were awesome.
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I wish I could play alts. I’m not allowed to though. People here demand I play ONLY as Varsinax.
Mostly the people here demand you don’t play at all.
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That’s why I don’t like to come here very often. It’s a hostile environment.
My advice: don’t play an “evil character.”
Play a character that has evil goals. Or maybe not even necessarily evil goals, but goals that he cannot be dissuaded from, no matter what.
It may seem like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, but I think it’s an important distinction to make.
Unless you really want to lean into the dark lord conquering the world trope, or a sort of chaotic evil brutal killer - and there’s nothing wrong with those if you do but I think they’re more challenging in RP - there is no reason to conceptualize your character as “evil”. Even if they are.
Conflict and loss can provide great motivations for a villain. As well as them being sympathetic to at least some degree. And having a moral code or at least a moral system of their own. Popular examples in recent fiction are people like Walter White, Daenerys Targaryen, Prince Zuko, Magneto, Thanos.
The Warcraft Universe has no dearth of death and tragedy, ways for a normal person to be scarred and roused to take action. It’s easy to imagine a Night Elf who barely escaped Teldrassil who could never forgive the Horde, or a Vulpera who, after a life of slavery and torment, vowed to never be weak and unable to defend himself and those he cares for - no matter the cost. I once tried to make a Draenei villain along those sort of lines, though I lost interest in it. A popular trope is the necromancer who wants to conquer death to end suffering and the pain of loss. Etc. Etc.
At the end of the day, evil is (kinda) subjective and the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I think its important to like and sympathize at least somewhat with your villain, speaking both generally in writing but also especially in RP.
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Because of the mentioned bad-faith actors, I tend to only play villains (or antagonistic RP in general) when I’m aware of who’s in the passenger seat with me on this drive into Dark RP. Randomly being evil in the Wyvern’s Tail is boring, as well, so I’m not really fond of it. No, if I’m going to be a villain, we’re setting it up like a D&D table and we’re not inviting randos to join.
As a DM I can let my nastiest ideas flourish. I can show people the depths of depravity, get them gnashing their teeth at antagonists, get them ready for a good time. And because we have table rules set, no one can just pull out their paladin good will and destroy the storyline because the rules don’t allow for that. And if someone turns out to be an obnoxious powergamer just here to “win” RP? I can nerf them, or make them leave.
I don’t think I could ever just throw an evil character into walkup tho. Outside structured RP, it’s hard to make sure everyone’s engaging in good faith.
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