It’s hilarious. I didn’t see any raiders complaining in 9.1 or at the beginning of 9.2.
I get it, it’s hard to fill a raid roster but maybe raid needs to be better.
M+ should be to make our way through a leaderboard, not to gear up fast and easy.
The whole system is poisonous for a MMO because:
- players toxicity in pug
- elitism misplaced (come on!!! it’s a MMO not an ARPG and much less a FPS)
- Open World becomes too trivial and its rewards becomes meaningless
The game mode itself isn’t bad, the M+ reward system is a cancer in a MMO imho
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It has nothing to do with this particular season. This has been the general difficultly curve for all of Shadowlands. Yes, the raid is what would be considered under-tuned due to the nature of the short season, experimental, etc., but M+ seems to be comparably under-tuned as well right now.
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For me personally i like mythic plus better than raids. Im a visual learner and its easier to see and experience stuff in 5 mans and try to understand mechanics VS in a raid setting.
For me its alot harder to see whats going on in a raid and try to learn it with 10 to 25 ppl especially on mechanics where you have to stack and then the boss puts something on a player that you have to move out with. Especially troublesome if you are a smaller race and have Taurens stacked on you.
So for me its a no brainer Mythic plus>Raid.
yeah I guess that’s why there’s been a litany of nerfs to m+ and no raid changes short of bug fixes
Of course. It rewards far better loot, rewards failing to time a key with mythic raid loot and is infinitely spammable with no lockout.
You weren’t looking very hard.
There’s also this multi-year thread that started in 2018 and is still relevant now: Bring back 5mans
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Love how you took my 1 sentence pulled it out of context of my point like a bag of trail mix to fit your agenda.
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That’s all the anti m+ crowd can do. They aren’t basing arguments on any kind of data, but on feelings, so they have to twist words to fit those feelings.
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This is a player problem, not a game mode.
Not sure what this even gets at.
It always becomes trivial and meaningless.
Exhausting loot systems are cancer to MMOs. Loot is a means to an end, nothing more.
I only read your OP, but this is a thread of your own creation discussing your distaste for M+ dungeons, not raid or anything to do with its loot. It’s not relevant to raiding at all.
It hasn’t been touched in 8+ months either.
Plenty of players want untimed dungeons they have to spend eons in. That’s fine, but it’s not relevant to loot and raid.
Except with m+ the vault at the end of the week gives you gear higher than anything that drops from the actual content when you run it. Raiding vault rewards only give gear at the item level you completed that week. See the discrepancy?
I run with organized groups of friends and we complete content pretty quickly. Depending on the dungeons, we can easily do four in roughly two hours. At two pieces of loot per dungeon, that’s eight pieces of loot for two-fifths of the players in the group in two hours. Twelve “chances at loot” in about six hours, and dungeons are infinitely spammable while raiding has weekly lockouts.
The results are highly variable. That’s the problem with this argument.
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it’s not that the vault loot for m+ is higher than the content, it’s that end-of-dungeon loot is lower. this is done deliberately to make up for the fact that m+ is spammable.
That all kind of dies away with uncapped valor.
For all intents and purposes EoD loot is 298 and infinitely farmable.
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Failing to time a +15 is not even close to the difficulty of clearing the heroic raid, let alone mythic - yet failure still rewards you with mythic ilvl loot.
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After a few weeks no one cares about the loot from the end of M+ though unless you’re on an alt or fishing for a specific Trinket to use Valor on.
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So now people are arguing for Blizzard to implement policies that will give all players less of a chance at getting loot? They just just remove normal and heroic raids then this won’t be an issue.
There’s truth in that statement. But one only needs to do +15s for mythic raid quality loot with a highly varied loot table that spans all m+ and some raid loot (tier). Meanwhile you need to kill mythic bosses for a comparable item level loot table that only has loot from the bosses that you actually killed. Meaning if you only run enough for one vault choice for raiding per week you’re stuck with the same 2-3 loot drops off the same couple of bosses while m+ players have a large and varied one with drastically less statistical chances that they’ll get duplicates. After a month or two of killing those same mythic raid bosses, chances are that you’ll already have everything that can drop.
If that trinket or weapon that you’re chasing drops off later mythic bosses, most players are simply out of luck on getting them. Meanwhile any m+ player needs only do 1 dungeon a week for a chance at anything on the m+ loot table.
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the over importance of raiding
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You’re just engaging in speculation, correlation, and your own biased opinions which leads to you just doing a lot of rectal ventriloquism.
There is still arena gear. If you are a good pvper your gear will have a higher pve ilvl.