I had a guildie who hit HWL in Vanilla. He was a college student who ended up doing fine I school. He was also the best PvPer I knew.
If you organize, run with a dedicated group, and win a whole lot more than you lose, then you can achieve the highest rewards.
Kinda just like raiding, isn’t it?
I dont think anyone here is asking for rank 14 to become more common than what it was in vanilla, just that it not require the same self damaging time commitment.
But…
Isn’t the latter directly influenced by the former?
It really is simple.
Rank is based on how much honor you grind.
There is absolutely no way to stop someone from playing more than you.
Without having a rated system like arena or rbg (which have their own issues) then the honor system is what it is, a grind.
Whoever grinds the most, gets rewarded the most.
I’d say if the system is going to be replaced, then use the RBG system with the same percentiles for each rank starting from rank 6. That means there would be the same percentages with each rank as the original system. The difference is it would be your rating that determines your rank instead of honor. Lower ranks should remain the same though. This system makes it so you are rewarded for beating the best premades instead of how many pugs you can steamroll in a given amount of time.
All I see is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
They could somehow incorporate skill into it to make up the difference. I am not the worlds greatest pvper so I wouldnt have the skill necessary to get it.
Maybe have it be something like, you you have to play in 40 BGs a week to get to the top spot, and your weekly ranking is dependent upon your win percentage. That win percentage is compared to everyone else’s and you get so many points depending on that rank. If you tie with someone for a rank, let’s say first and second, you split the points evenly between you for first and second. Add a bit of a decay to make people have to keep playing. Require less BGs for lower ranks and bam. Something like that.
That ranks could be like 1 gets the most, 2 gets less, 3 and 4 get the same but less than that, 5 through 8, 9 through 16, so on and so forth. Require you average in the top 16 each week for like 6 months.
It would be one thing if the OP suggested to make ranks based on rating instead of honor, but it’s another when the OP is just whining.
I think lots of folks are a bit defensive over this because, in part, they know that they play an unhealthy number of hours and they want to feel like they can get rewarded for that behavior.
I’m not sure there is a reasonably valid argument to be had here that requiring 15-20 hours of gameplay every day is an acceptable amount of time for ANYONE to be spending time on a game. I personally think that while it’s good to reward the most dedicated players, the best PvP players, and those who really want it, I don’t think it is at ALL acceptable to place the benchmark for the big e-peen/ego boost ranking and gear at a level that requires the individual to either break the ToS to account share/cheat or literally ignore their personal health and life responsibilities.
In short, I agree with OP. Something should be done to enable people to play the-grind, but that grind should NOT require the insane physical and mental stress and dedication that it currently is slated as was the case back in the day.
At the point where things stand now, literally (Not figuratively) only people who are suffering from Video-Game Addiction can achieve this goal. Bear in mind, I’m not advocating that it should be made “easy” and I’ll admit that this whole thing is subjective, so I think those most dedicated players should be rewarded, only that I don’t want to see people subject themselves to physical and mental harm to even have a SHOT at achieving it.
IMO a simple solution - Disable honor gains for players on a 24 hour timer after they’ve been engaging in PvP for 10 hours. If someone has been playing at PvP for that long in a given day, we shouldn’t encourage them to continue. They should go take a nap and know that all other players are similarly limited so that they won’t “fall behind.”
At that point though, it’s less tweaking and more completely rehauling the original ladder system.
That’s what Arena was supposed to be, a contest of skill vs time commitment. But for that we’ll have to wait for Classic TBC.
Look at the levels of the ones disagreeing. You are not seeing many 60’s
I don’t think it’s the hardcores that disagree, it’s more the purists that want the exact vanilla experience (even tho it’s not already due to item changes and layering)
Although I am in agreement that the system is messed up
If blizzard was to change it the only reasonable way I could see it being changed without sacrificng the purpose of rank 14 is to make it be a honor/hour grind that doesnt decay nor take into account the percent of people in a rank. A glorified rep grind in a way. I would say make rank 14 need the equilvalent of 1k-2k hours of pvp into it to get it. With no rank decay and being a set honor to reach you would still only see the dedicated of the hard core reach it quickly with others getting to it eventually with more casual play.
mind you I do not advocate for this change to take place but offer a solution that could appease some if not all the #nochanges people
I thought about that idea. Having it be a goalpost for example a hypothetical no decay system where 100k honor earned = rank 14.
But then everyone would end up with rank 14 after a while and I don’t see this ever being an option.
The system right now makes sense, whoever gets the most honor each week is the most honorable. People just can’t accept the fact that other people will try harder than them.
You might as well try to convince your server to only play a couple hours a day or ask blizzard to limit people’s playtime’s.
I like the system thats in place and its entirely based on how active your server is on whether you gain rank 14 or not doing 1 hour a day of pvp or 14 hours a day of pvp. But I understand the viewpoint of some to make it a VERY long honor grind that they can eventually get to.
“Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply”
OP you clearly don’t see the writing on the wall. You are playing the FINAL version of a game. Blizzard has not made any changes to Classic other than to fix non-intended bugs and to add layering to accommodate the masses. But changes to the gameplay or game system that won’t happen.
You make many valid points and by the way i agree with most but none of them matter because again you are playing the FINAL version of the game.
People who put more time into the game should be rewarded more than the people who put less time in the game. Everyone getting equal rewards is one of the causes that made retail into what it is today. If you can’t grind HKs like others then you don’t deserve the rewards.
If you have bothered to read the conversation instead of what you think the conversation is, you would realize we all want rank 14 to remain its rarity. We arent saying everyone should get it, if you want Welfare Epics, molten core is right there for you.
The PvP system is not fun and ridiculous and it does promote harmful behavior.
The main flaw is how weekly reset decays affect progress to such a ridiculous degree.
If not this phase, Blizzard should seriously consider altering their pvp model.
Someone suggested simply locking the upper tiers behind large HK quotas. This achieves the same effect by similar means (grinding and killing) while still not demanding account sharing or other unhealthful forms of behavior.
I’m going to PVP on my toons as long as I find it enjoyable. I am not at all worried about whatever rank I obtain. I’m sure it will be higher than private/grunt but probably lower than High Warlord.
No changes period. You don’t have to be high warlord to have fun pvp