The numbers are in Rogues need a massive buff in raids

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
1

Currently rogues sit at 9th place in the dps rankings, and as tanks they no longer are fulfilling their role as the “high damage” tank compared to classes like warlocks and shamans.

What does that mean in the long run? It means there is no reason to bring a rogue to a raid. Other classes in the same performance bracket as rogues bring utility and buffs to the raid group, however rogues, the class intended to bring only damage is unable to bring enough damage to justify their spot.

I’m lucky enough to have a guild that rosters me each week, but I know that many rogues are struggling to find groups, and during one lockout where we didn’t have an official raid going, I seached LFG and our Servers discord for 3 days straight and was left on read by every group, despite having solid 90-97 parses as well as a slew of 99 BFD parses from last phase to pad my resume.

It’s honestly ridiculous for a class to be in this kind of state, people get salty just because a rogue can stunlock them and kill them while they’re stunned for 8 seconds straight, but they forget that Enh Shamans, hunters, warriors and paladins are all killing them in less than 4 seconds with or without a stun, priests are drive-by dotting whole groups and taking people from 100-0 by pressing 2 buttons, and mages have turned into weapons of mass destruction.

Something needs to be done.

8 Likes
2

Youll be fine as long as there is a kick mechanic in raids.

5 Likes
3

Unless you’re horde than just bring another shaman

4

Nearly every class has a kick or kick rune available now besides hunters warlocks and priests. There is one boss in gnomer right now that has a kick mechanic and it can be easily done any any number of classes given the time between each cast. Saying that this justifies bring a rogue is like tossing stale cake to the starving masses.

1 Like
5

Does something need to be done for the next few weeks of this phase, or will something naturally change as we rise in level, scale with gear and face different types of mobs in raid instances?

I guess the big question that people probably have around other peoples’ raid log performance based on some arbitrary percentile they seem to feel has meaning is that they’d like to know if there are going to be changes with such numbers or overall rankings in the future or not.

The fact that things may well change going forward is probably why many people suggest to, “play what you like,” rather than chase the meta. However, this is SoD, and we have incredible catchup mechanics including a massive XP buff, so does it really matter?

:woman_shrugging:

1 Like
6

Does it matter if classes are unable to get into raid content unless they’re in a guild willing to bring them?

It seems pretty important to be able to play the content without being functionally locked out of joining groups.

7

Just lower the boss armor so the melee will shut the heck up.

3 Likes
8

Agreed. Warriors can get into 1 raid slot based upon having sunders and battle/commanding shout. AKA melee hunter parse buffer. Rogues have the short end of the short stick

9

Clearly its not an armor issue if hunters and enh shamans are able to lead the pack on DPS on the same bosses, a large portion of rogue damage right now are poisons anyways, which are not effected by armor, but instead do a flat 20% less damage for no reason.

10

I hope you understand that RAP from Hunters get mitigated by the armor value oncbosses as well so your point is kind of invalidated. Coupled in the fact that Hunters being ranged will also have to help out with the bombs depending on the comp. So i find this to be more of a skill issue if you are losing DPS to a hunter that has to deal with bombs whilst you get to do free dmg and have no mechanics to deal with.

11

and reduce boss poison and bleed resistances as well tbh.

They can’t afford to buff rogues directly, the class is already strong enough in pvp as it is.

Gnomer should just be nerfed into the ground at this point, if only so everyone can feel super OP and speshul about themselves for the last few weeks of the Phase.

1 Like
12

Rogues need nerfs actually. PvE doesnt matter.

2 Likes
13

Maybe! I do think that the point about rogues being on the lower end of the damage meters and not having any particular buffs they bring is a reasonable one to make.

If you look at other melee, hunters have high damage output, can help with swapping to ranged mechanics/bombs in a pinch, taunt with pet, and bring a raid wide buff. Feral druids obviously bring Wild Strikes (which on Alliance at least is massive), A ret paladin is always nice to have with paladin blessings being such great utility.

I often put multiple pug groups together/reset, and typically this message:

/LookingForGroup lfm Gnomeregan - Group Loot, MS > OS - no comms - be P1 BiS+, and have 6/6 exp. - pst for inv

will immediately be replied to by 10+ rogues and warriors with something like:

“inv”

or

“inv dps”

The bottleneck for forming PuG groups, in my opinion at least, is healers. I would put order of difficulty filling roles somewhere like this:

Healing Priest > HPal > Rdru >= Tank > Healing Mage > RDPS > MDPS

In other words, it isn’t exciting when any melee dps replies to sign up for a PuG. Some will reply with “dps or OT” to stand out. I don’t play rogue, and don’t really know, but I think you may need to respec to OT, unlike other classes like Warrior, Paladin, or Druid, so that may be something worth looking at also.

Anyway, all this to say that I don’t think it’s so much that people don’t want rogues in their groups, or that they wouldn’t be willing to bring them, but there doesn’t seem to be any benefit to stacking rogues as a class and there seem to be a lot of people playing them. There are very few classes you would stack in a 10 man, anyway.

I’ve done a couple of runs with a Rogue tank and another rogue DPS, but of course there’s no real benefit to having a second rogue or even 1 rogue dps as opposed to any other melee in that same spot right now.

Is that an issue? IDK…

:woman_shrugging:

14

I don’t mind fighting Rogues in PvP tbh. But they definitely don’t need a damage buff just because they’re ninth in pve. They would seriously be oppressive in PvP if that happened.

15

Rogues only swap runes to go from dps to tanking, since the best tanking spec is typically going to be the best dps spec. If they went full mitigation talents they would see a marginal defensive gain but lose all their threat and damage, which is what the benefit of a rogue tank was intended to be.

I do agree that there are a lot of lazy rogues and that it itself is an issue, I was inspecting rogues in Ironforge the other day and found multiple lvl 40 rogues using white weapons, caster gear with +2 agi or something as a waste stat, and useless things like the rogue rune trinket. But even me with decent logs and better than pre-bis gear was left on read to everyone I messaged, while spamming:

DPS LFG Gnomer, 6/6 cleared 99.2 BPA Rogue, full WB+DMF LFG this lockout!

16

Heres an idea for you:

Make your own group.

The mechanics are not difficult to understand and by this point, those joining pugs are mainly alts anyways. Youll never worry about being accepted into a group, if you can raid lead your own. Simple.

17

They really just need a 25% boost to envenom. that would bring them close enough without breaking them in pvp, been syain that for a while.

18

I suggest you give this a try before saying something, it usually goes like this:

  1. you spam LFG
  2. You invite someone
  3. They see that you’re a rogue and there’s 2 people in the group
  4. Your group has been disbanded
19

Genuinely curious if this is stated anywhere. Are rogues supposed to be the high DPS tank?

20

Have you tried offering to Off-Tank as well as DPS?

This is how I found a pug group the one lockout I wasn’t going with my guild even though I’m a Ret Paladin, ostensibly even a worse class than a Rogue when it comes to Gnomer. We easily 6/6’d it too.