The new Guild UI and Permissions...yikes (Part 1)

10/21/2018 10:43 AMPosted by Wretchedmist
I'm not asking for an apology. Just revert the permissions change. That's it.


^^That^^

Blizzard:

We simply want our guild control back.

We do not understand why it was taken away, nor why no solution to at least revert it to a pre-BfA state has not been forthcoming.
Still working on my read-through and pulling up gems that deserve extra attention.

Here are two back-to-back posts from page 38 (same poster) that have several excellent suggestions for improving the guild system beyond simply fixing what was broken three months ago:
07/29/2018 09:11 AMPosted by Keiralynn
I have been thinking of other ways to improve the system outside of just reverting it which it so very much needs.

After playing around with Guild Roster Manager a bit there are MANY things that would be awesome to have that GRM has.

Join date of each guild member:

This would help guild leaders to see who has been there the longest and gives them a pooled option on promotions with in the guild via ranks and permissions.

Alt list:

This would allow us to not have to worry about keeping track of adding notes of people's toons. Instead of taking time to add note's like "Goober's alt" it will mass populate the list when you click on the person's toon name showing you all their toons in guild.

Name changes:

If someone decides they want to change their toons name or they get reported and have to change their name it will automatically update this information.

Ban list:

You can actively ban people who are extremely toxic from ever being invited back to the guild. Even more so to expand on that, it would be awesome if there was an option to when you ban someone they wouldn't be able to join on any toons again. This would help tremendously as it would protect guilds from toxic people being removed from being able to join again to cause havoc.

These are just a few ideas taken from GRM that I feel like would bring added benefit to the guild UI. Will comment again when an idea hits me.


07/29/2018 09:14 AMPosted by Keiralynn
Mass Invite for events. That has been crazy trying to do as it is based on inviting anyone from one set rank up. More tailored fit where you can select the ranks for invite would be amazing.

For example, you are hosting a pvp event. You know that pve only players wouldn't want to join. So you check the pvp rank you have in guild and it only invites them. Not them and everyone above that rank.

Another example would be holding a tmog event. Some people just don't care about that sort of thing and so you could only invite those who are part of a tmog/achieves rank.

Upping the cap for mass invite from 100 would work wonders too.

I like all of these ideas so much I can't pick a favorite. While I feel like I'd be happy just getting the all-in-one permissions removed, ideas like these do make me want a little more from Blizz. We were asked for additional functionality that we'd like to see. I believe Keiralynn has knocked this one out of the park.
1 Like
10/08/2018 02:38 PMPosted by Itzali
I'm a part of WoW QA, we usually check the bug forums. Things listed in General are checked by community. Many of these may currently be researched but large threads are hard to manage. If you have a specific topic you're passionate about I suggest breaking them up into separate threads.

I will forward this on to them for visibility.

<span class="truncated">...</span>

I check this thread every day for some instance of a reply. I don't know if blues are being silenced from saying anything on this topic, but the issues are very real, and the feedback is very thorough. I hope we get something soon, this is killin me.


Yeah...this is *totally* not the response we are lookin' for...Beyzen got a response in two days..I got one in 1 day...
Morning / AM bump before I go to sleep. Hopefully, this will be on the front page of the forums for Blizzard's workday.

We're almost at 2,000 replies.. Which means, the thread cap will be extended again.... or they'll just let it die off. I bet if they extend the thread again, we'll get another garbage response of, "We need more information" or "I don't have anything to report yet".

4 months Blizzard. 4 months go by and you can't say if you're working on a fix for this or not. Some AAA you pride yourselves on quality finish and communication you are.. not....
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Blizzard,

Please revert the changes made to the guild ui and officer permissions. This change has resulted in serious disruption for guild leaders across the board, as well as removing player choice and the ability to structure our guilds in the way that works best for us. Regardless of the reason these changes were made in the first place, they have impeded productivity, and the lack of response from Blizzard for so many pages has left those of us in the community who are passionate about this issue feeling ignored and frustrated.

All we would like is to have our old permissions back, and a return to player choice.
1 Like
Posted by Keiralynn
I have been thinking of other ways to improve the system outside of just reverting it which it so very much needs.

After playing around with Guild Roster Manager a bit there are MANY things that would be awesome to have that GRM has.

Join date of each guild member:

This would help guild leaders to see who has been there the longest and gives them a pooled option on promotions with in the guild via ranks and permissions.

Alt list:

This would allow us to not have to worry about keeping track of adding notes of people's toons. Instead of taking time to add note's like "Goober's alt" it will mass populate the list when you click on the person's toon name showing you all their toons in guild.

Name changes:

If someone decides they want to change their toons name or they get reported and have to change their name it will automatically update this information.

Ban list:

You can actively ban people who are extremely toxic from ever being invited back to the guild. Even more so to expand on that, it would be awesome if there was an option to when you ban someone they wouldn't be able to join on any toons again. This would help tremendously as it would protect guilds from toxic people being removed from being able to join again to cause havoc.

These are just a few ideas taken from GRM that I feel like would bring added benefit to the guild UI. Will comment again when an idea hits me.

07/29/2018 09:14 AMPosted by Keiralynn
Mass Invite for events. That has been crazy trying to do as it is based on inviting anyone from one set rank up. More tailored fit where you can select the ranks for invite would be amazing.

For example, you are hosting a pvp event. You know that pve only players wouldn't want to join. So you check the pvp rank you have in guild and it only invites them. Not them and everyone above that rank.

Another example would be holding a tmog event. Some people just don't care about that sort of thing and so you could only invite those who are part of a tmog/achieves rank.

Upping the cap for mass invite from 100 would work wonders too.

I like all of these ideas so much I can't pick a favorite. While I feel like I'd be happy just getting the all-in-one permissions removed, ideas like these do make me want a little more from Blizz. We were asked for additional functionality that we'd like to see. I believe Keiralynn has knocked this one out of the park.


Fumel found a great post here in my opinion!

As a Gm since the early days, I find many of these ideas amazing and I have to wonder why they were not implemented by Blizz at some point over the last decade or so, and why in the blankity blank they (Blizz) though it'd be a great idea to not expand the guild ui / permissions, but instead cripple them severely.

I personally really like the idea of a "join date" and "alt list" being added to the guild ui.

For me anyway, writing notes on who joined when, and who's alt is who's has been extremely time consuming, tedious, and even frustrating at the times over the years. (Guildies are not always great at listing what toons belong to them and confusion and even anger can and does happen when cleaning house (ie" booting inactive toons)

We personally don't do a lot of booting for inactivity. We're usually of of the mind-frame "Once a BloodOath always a BloodOath" However, a toon that joined, played for 5 minutes and then doesn't come back in months may be removed.

As most guild have I'm sure, we've had our share of the toxic folks over the years. An option in the guild permissions to perma-ban certain individuals as well as their entire account to prevent them from coming back on alts time and time again to cause even more issues would be amazing from a leadership point of view.

Mass invites. also an awesome idea.

We have guild meetings. They are open to all guildies, but not in any way mandatory. (Not everyone is interested in participating in meetings, being social, various guild events, etc...)

A better system to invite those who actually want to attend functions like that or similar would save guild leaders (at least this one) a lot of trouble and the folks not interested in an invite they do not want

Features like those above mentioned would be invaluable.

Indeed. As Fumel said "Keiralynn has knocked this one out of the park"

Blizzard: THAS is the sort of person with actual good ideas for Warcraft you should be hiring and listening to

Intently.
Ridiculous that they keep removing options
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I thank God that many of my toons are in me-only guilds.
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I don't understand why they change things that PERFECTLY fine.

Come on blizzard.. the whole Guild UI is trash.

EDIT: I will admit I love the community option, a lot of our raiders are not on the same server.
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I want controls over my guild back.
Why there is no answer on this issue yet?
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Welcome to Blizz. Here is the real issue. Blizz creates this thing called communities...in order for it to be seen as worthwhile people have to use it. To get people to use it Blizz sticks a small shank into the Guild UI...more people use communities and Blizz gets to point a finger and say "Hey look it works" and give each other high fives on how well they are capable of making content that can hardly be considered content.
1 Like
10/22/2018 10:41 AMPosted by Emt
Welcome to Blizz. Here is the real issue. Blizz creates this thing called communities...in order for it to be seen as worthwhile people have to use it. To get people to use it Blizz sticks a small shank into the Guild UI...more people use communities and Blizz gets to point a finger and say "Hey look it works" and give each other high fives on how well they are capable of making content that can hardly be considered content.


I dislike strongly the conspiratorial ideas behind Blizzard's actions. But I'm going to be honest; I've racked my brain trying to come up with ideas of why Blizzard did this in the first place, and come up with nothing. This is the first thing that seems remotely rational.
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I have brought this up with Blizzard directly and will do so again. The best argument in favor of a reversion to how the permissions used to work is the Least Privilege argument. A sound, solid argument.
2 Likes
Some of you may remember the post I made about my guild shutting down after nearly 4 years. I DO blame these changes, and I DO think reverting them will help me grow my new guild.

I am persistent, so I have formed a new guild, RP focused, and attempted to recruit to it. Though, the large draw in appeal to my previous guild resides in the promise of possible rank promotion to hard-working members, is no longer something I can promise.

I recruited to a guild for 4 years, with relative ease, showing off our fine-tuned ranks to new members, causing them to salivate for a position of "power" in RP, etc. Now, without being able to offer a progression path to my members, (There is no argument to convince me that this new 3-tier ranking system is better than the old system, especially considering that the top tier is something I ONLY give to my Co-Gm.)

What we ALL want is simple. Revert permissions. It is a simple request, and should NOT be taking this long.

I don't believe those leaked subscription numbers are believable, but I DO believe the game is struggling more than WoD, and it's only going to get worse if guilds remain as dead as they are.

Thank you
10/22/2018 10:47 AMPosted by Xethorsiph
10/22/2018 10:41 AMPosted by Emt
Welcome to Blizz. Here is the real issue. Blizz creates this thing called communities...in order for it to be seen as worthwhile people have to use it. To get people to use it Blizz sticks a small shank into the Guild UI...more people use communities and Blizz gets to point a finger and say "Hey look it works" and give each other high fives on how well they are capable of making content that can hardly be considered content.


I dislike strongly the conspiratorial ideas behind Blizzard's actions. But I'm going to be honest; I've racked my brain trying to come up with ideas of why Blizzard did this in the first place, and come up with nothing. This is the first thing that seems remotely rational.


It is called fencing. You put up obstructions to push people onto a desired route.

Look blizz/activision hates guilds....hates them to death. Guild represent a vocal push for changes. If you have a guild that has daughter guilds within multiple servers and each one of these guilds are huge they can actually fan flames of change within the game itself....Blizz don't like that....not one bit. So kill off the guilds slowly and push people into communities. Then they can say "Oh people are using communities over guilds so we might as well just eliminate them altogether."
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10/22/2018 10:50 AMPosted by Xakopane
I have brought this up with Blizzard directly and will do so again. The best argument in favor of a reversion to how the permissions used to work is the Least Privilege argument. A sound, solid argument.


A doom upon whomsoever has wronged Xakopane in the past or whomsoever may do so in the future.

If I could invite you over for a cannoli and coffee, I would, and name you friend in doing so. You will be henceforth recognized by the special rank of Godfather, should you ever join our Guild.
10/22/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Beyzen
What we ALL want is simple. Revert permissions. It is a simple request, and should NOT be taking this long.


YES!

10,000 times YES!
10/22/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Venjin
You will be henceforth recognized by the special rank of Godfather, should you ever join our Guild.


Nice offer!

(Umm...If I join your guild can I haz a cookie?) =D
10/22/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Venjin
You will be henceforth recognized by the special rank of Godfather, should you ever join our Guild.


But the real question is whether you'll check the box for "Is Officer" for that rank giving him all the permissions or none of the permissions since that is the only option available...
(couldn't help a little sarcasm here...sorry)
10/22/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Tareir
10/22/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Venjin
You will be henceforth recognized by the special rank of Godfather, should you ever join our Guild.


But the real question is whether you'll check the box for "Is Officer" for that rank giving him all the permissions or none of the permissions since that is the only option available...
(couldn't help a little sarcasm here...sorry)


Well played, sir!