Every time I touch my guild controls for any reason, I log a ticket in-game--and I reference this thread.
Every time there's a Q&A from Ion, I reference this thread.
Every time I there's a patch or hotfix that causes Blizz to be active on twitter, or even when I'm just on twitter--I tweet Blizzard and the devs, and reference this thread.
My guild, officers to initiates, reference this thread.
In any community I'm active in... I draw attention to this thread.
There is a unanimous consensus here. There are miles of feedback here. There is surprising lack of tangential wandering here.
That's why we keep posting here.
I do this as well.
I reference this thread when I make my usual in-game "bug report" re: the state of the guild ui / permissions EVERY time I have to use them. (it almost makes me feel dirty using them)
I reference this thread on Warcraft Facebook groups and show screenshots I took of the old (and better) Guild Control, and the new and laughable mess that Blizzard shoved down our collective throats without so much as a "how do you do"
I have referenced this thread in at least a few other threads here.
It would seem that maybe this is the best way to "spread the word"
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I'm still waiting and hoping.
Just a lot of RL Drama in my neighborhood that's been demanding attention so I can't post as often.
But I need these controls reverted.
Then we can talk about really making guilds awesome through further refinement.
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As original and ongoing GM of a guild that's been active on the same server since 2007, I want to put my name down on this forum to beg Blizzard to take some action in regards to the many comments in this long thread.
I am also very unhappy with the new Guild UI and elements of WoW guild structure. The new permissions have caused a lot of contention and confusion in the guild and has basically tied my hands on who I can promote to officer but without the game's official "Officer" rank. It seems the regular or new members have more authority than an officer in that regard; they can change their own notes but officers cannot. A lot of players do not have authenticators, so I did not want to make that mandatory. Currently, my alts are in the 2nd rank and officers 3rd, but do they do not seem to have much more power or privileges than raiders or other members. To make them official officer rank, that would give them the same abilities as the me: Full access to the guild bank and ability to delete people's messages, calendar events, notes, guild messages, kick people from voice chat, etc., but most important the ability to remove guildies. For me, that is unacceptable. I wish to reserve the action to remove for the GM only, and only when it is warranted. For now, we made a "Community" chat channel for Officer Chat as a workaround, but it is not ideal and does not address other issues.
I also want GMs to be able to control members' public notes; we use them to include spec and item level so we know who to invite to raids or other events, to list their alt names, and so they do not use offensive language in their notes as sometimes happens. While you can put information in the Officer Note, you cannot sort by that nor can the unofficial "officers" see it at this point. I should be able to choose who can do what by checking or unchecking a box in the rank tab.
As some have mentioned, we have seen few changes in Guild perks and rewards since we first labored to level our guilds from 1 to 25. For bigger guilds, that was not so difficult and happened fast, but for smaller guilds like ours at the time it took almost a year. It took a lot of teamwork and collaboration, and it meant something to be a "Level 25 guild" and it gave us grand things like pets, mounts, heirlooms, recipes, and the fabulous "mass summon", which was later taken away. Now, everyone has a Level 25 guild regardless of size or achievements along with the same old perks from old expansions. There should be some incentive for players "exalted" with their guild and for GMs that maintain active guilds with active rosters, more so for those that stick around on dying realms rather than relocating the entire guild to another server as many have done, thereby making a low pop realm even smaller.
I ask that Blizzard/Blue please read this thread and give the community an answer as to how the Guild UI and structure in game will be fixed, and hopefully sooner than later. Please give guild control back to the guild masters? Otherwise, what is the point?
Another perfect example why these changes are bad and never should have been implemented. Keep it up everyone! BTW love your name Wootding, i have a hunter named Dingwoot =).
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They've already mentioned that we need to continue sending in feedback (A while ago during that first QnA) why would they do that if they didnt have intentions to hear it?
I am beyond annoyed this has gone on so long.
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Alrighty, I need to adhere to the forum rules for a legit attempt to keep this thread alive.
Suggestion: Enable Titanforged and Warforged Guilds at random when guild charters are signed.
How we'd use it: Asmongold will hopefully make a video decrying this system and when people ask why it was implemented, they'll look at this thread and go "oh".
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Still doing my read through. Now up to page 38. Here is some feedback about an issue that isn't specifically the permissions problem, but is made worse because of the permissions:
07/28/2018 11:25 PMPosted by
Hearne
My GM is getting very frustrated with the Event creation system as it currently is.
If the GM wants to create an event that will be of interest to a specific subset of the guild, she can no longer easily do that, because the options for creating and inviting to events is, improbably, far more clunky and difficult than it was prior to the changes. They can only be invited by the currently available ranks which means going in and hand-deleting, one at a time, those characters that will not be interested in that event. Its that much more difficult to see, at a glance, who is coming and who isn't. Not mention the previously spoken-of tedium of setting it up in the first place.
Why in heavens name, did something that worked fine for so long, have to be screwed up so very royally?
I also don't understand why something that worked fine was broken--but that's been echoed here multiple times. I don't have anything against the communities feature, but if it's preventing a fix for our guild functions, maybe I need to rethink my opinion.
I'm still hoping we won't be forgotten. I dread to think what will happen if 8.1 comes out and this is
still an issue.
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Here is the thing, to be fair, there are a lot of issues with the game. And it's apparent that there are somethings being back peddled on. This is probably so far down on the list that we are getting responses like, "we need more feedback" to buy time. It's clear they've seen this, and it's clear it's being ignored.
I too will still not go anywhere, and will keep up with this thread when I can. I play wow to relax and have fun, my "real life" stressors are enough, this change has only added it to it. Add to that but all the other inherent issues with the game right now, I honestly have no real desire to play the game. If it weren't for my guild/raid team there is a good chance that I would quit buying time.
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Mmmph, do we have to resort to filibustering?
I bought this habanero hot sauce, and it's too hot for me to eat more than a few drops. It has the seeds in it; I bet without the seeds I could have a bit more at a time. I also think my tolerance for spiciness is getting lower as I age. I think I might have been fine with a whole teaspoon or two at 15.
TLDR: Officer permissions can't be all lumped into one rank.
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10/19/2018 09:33 PMPosted by
Irannia
If it weren't for my guild/raid team there is a good chance that I would quit buying time.
Sadly. I am relating to this sentiment more and more as time goes by and there is not so much as a peep from Blizz on this.
Honestly, because we (as a guild) haven't recruited this xpac due to this issue with guild control there aren't a huge number of us playing at this time.
Not to mention, some came back and then left again for other reasons BfA related.
Unfortunately, it isn't just guild controls. BfA is a broken xpac.
This is why guilds are so important, they keep us going through the good and the bad. We have had glitches/problems/down times in the past but our family is always there to hang and play with. I personally never had a bad expansion cuz ive had my Maidens, my family, to be with no matter what. The change in guild controls has hurt guilds, hurt families, hurt people who love Warcraft...why would you do this?! CHANGE THE GUILD PERMISSIONS BACK and we will keep these wonderful loyal players around no matter what the "game issue" might be. HELP US HELP YOU BLIZZ.
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Reading through, I found this post on page 38 with a suggestion for another feature to return to guilds:
07/29/2018 06:22 AMPosted by
Tejal
I would like this changed back as well to individual assignment of permissions instead of a bulk officer perms.
I'm also really sad to see that in a warcraft community you have the option to btag friend add someone by right clicking but this feature has been taken away in guilds.
I hadn't noticed not being able to right-click to add a b-tag, but that's probably because everyone in my guild is already a b-tag friend. I can see this being a very useful feature for larger guilds though, and especially guilds that are growing their membership.
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To whom it may concern:
As it is apparent that some enterprising individual, employed in some capacity at Blizzard Entertainment, has spent copious quantities of their personal effort perusing the works and passions of Lovecraft, one may assume, potentially erroneously, that it is possible the culture therein is spurred forward by ideologies expressed with extreme verbosity. If this does in fact prove to be the case, then I must forthwith pursue an argument that belies not just my erstwhile passions, but also those that cling to my bosom even into today. To that end, I must entreat the patience of my dear reader in the event that I fail to appeal adequately to a sense of curiosity and shared interests.
If I may presume to assume, however briefly, that my own motives and ambitions are broadly shared by the stalwart denizens of this thread, it is not remotely unusual that those of us who have undertaken leadership roles within our guilds continue to pursue our shared hobby for the purpose of furthering our respective communities and engaging in the casual socialization frequently enjoyed by close friends who have been acquainted with each other for many years. Furthermore, I do not believe I am alone in hearing from the members of my personal social circle that the only reason said members continue to engage in our shared hobby is precisely because of the social interactions provided by our little community. Therefore, I, as have seemingly many others, come to to the inescapable conclusion that our humble little guilds have over the years coalesced into a structure resembling the anatomical function of a spine, capable of bearing the strain of disagreement over the philosophies guiding the design decision making, and ensuring that players remain engaged and entertained regardless of the current status of the actual game. For myself, I can most firmly attest that the strength of my social bonds have carried more weight than my dissatisfaction with certain decisions of a design nature at crucial moments in the history of this game's development.
Given that our humble guilds have, via whatever meandering path, ended up in such a pivotal role in ensuring the ongoing health and success of our shared hobby, it is at best illogical, and at worst insidious, to undermine such institutions and detract from their capacity to adequately fulfill their designated role of community building. Despite this rather obvious line of logic, it does appear that Blizzard Entertainment is either entirely oblivious or possibly uncaring of the undue burden placed upon the humble leadership of these little communities by their recent updates, however innocent the intention, to the permissions structure. It is for this reason that I feel compelled to entreat that this situation be rectified with all due haste, as it has oft been stated the probability that Blizzard Entertainment is preoccupied with other matters of greater import is quite high. Over the lengthy duration of this issue, it has increased in urgency and import, and has reached a point where, in my humble belief, it now carries greater weight providing the benefit of prioritization.
This is my earnest entreaty, and my fondest hope is that Blizzard Entertainment will respond most favorably to this timid request.
With only the purest of intentions and the utmost respect,
Elder Takoda of Thunder Bluff, Chieftain of Army of Mulgore, Guardian of G'Hanir and Cenarius, the Dreamer, and Champion of the Frozen Wastes
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So...many of you may have not taken the time to see who is actually posting here. There are numerous people here that are posting and posing as guild leaders who are simply regular trolls and *known* to Blizz as such on the forums. This is not helping our cause.
It is now my opinion that having been infiltrated by trolls unknowingly, that we will likely not ever get a response. Do your own research. See how many posters here are actually not guild leaders. See how many posters on this thread are running multiple threads or in multiple threads on the forums. You can look up my guild easily by clicking on the name underneath mine; you will see I am the guild leader. Many, many posters here are not. Or they are guild leaders of essentially bank guilds that have not completed anything as a guild in any recent xpac. As I mentioned before this, probably above anything else has given this thread the kiss of death.
It struck me as odd, after 14 years in the game that Blizz would treat us in this manner. However, knowing Blizz as well as I do, they will never bow down to trolls or lifetime forum dwellers. I won't stop posting here but it would be nice if everyone took a minute to see who is actually a guild leader (of an active guild) and who isn't. Then decide what next steps we should take.
*Takes cover anticipating the rain of poop about to drop from the forum dwellers and trolls*
Meh...one actual posting by a non-troll, with coherent feedback, should outweigh any number of trolls. And I'm sure there's more than one real post by actual guild leaders in a 97 page thread. If they try to ignore the issue because "buhh trolls", they're eventually going to be left with nothing but trolls.
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Even trolls need a nice guild to call home. If a nice guild would take a troll. ;-)
Ignoring, or using "we need more feedback" as an excuse to buy time are poor ways to address a known problem. Being honest and saying "we're aware of the problem and just can't fix it quite yet" would be better.
Lack of engagement with the community is another known problem, and it seems it is pretty evident here in this topic as well.
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this threads been going on since july 17 and still no changes :(
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So...many of you may have not taken the time to see who is actually posting here. There are numerous people here that are posting and posing as guild leaders who are simply regular trolls and *known* to Blizz as such on the forums. This is not helping our cause.
Me thinks Cheheals is upset because (sadly) no one is paying attention to the alternate thread she/he created regarding this issue nor did anyone "migrate" over to his/her alternate thread from this one as he/she hoped. (See past postings in this thread)
When I pointed out these facts out to she/ he, I was (for all intents and purposes) nearly or even literally lumped into the "troll" category. Said thread and "conversation" can be read here:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769736950?page=1#post-16Also. I hope no one here will feel the need to defend or "explain themselves" or their guilds whether they're large, small active, dormant or even banker / storage, to anyone.
Regardless of anyone's personal opinion:
We are all guild leaders.This issue is relevant to ALL GUILDS. What we all have are broken guilds.
Blizzard themselves broke them in a troll like sneak attack move that none of us saw coming and has since then taken a position of ignoring or nearly ignoring the problem
they created.We are ALL attempting to get Blizzards attention so this problem can be fixed and we can go back to guild leading.
Attacking one another with accusations is as Cheheals put it ".......not helping our cause."
Up until this point this thread has been very informative, supportive, understanding, friendly, emotional, (and even musical!) and has even in it's own fashion, perhaps become it's own sort of temporary mini community of like minded folks
working together for the same goal.
Please. Lets not mess with that.
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So...many of you may have not taken the time to see who is actually posting here. There are numerous people here that are posting and posing as guild leaders who are simply regular trolls and *known* to Blizz as such on the forums. This is not helping our cause.
It is now my opinion that having been infiltrated by trolls unknowingly, that we will likely not ever get a response. Do your own research. See how many posters here are actually not guild leaders. See how many posters on this thread are running multiple threads or in multiple threads on the forums. You can look up my guild easily by clicking on the name underneath mine; you will see I am the guild leader. Many, many posters here are not. Or they are guild leaders of essentially bank guilds that have not completed anything as a guild in any recent xpac. As I mentioned before this, probably above anything else has given this thread the kiss of death.
It struck me as odd, after 14 years in the game that Blizz would treat us in this manner. However, knowing Blizz as well as I do, they will never bow down to trolls or lifetime forum dwellers. I won't stop posting here but it would be nice if everyone took a minute to see who is actually a guild leader (of an active guild) and who isn't. Then decide what next steps we should take.
*Takes cover anticipating the rain of poop about to drop from the forum dwellers and trolls*
I have to respectfully disagree with the premise of this post.
I personally don't accept the concept of "troll posters", though troll
posts are well known throughout the forums. I never judge a post by who is posting--I judge the post's content. A player who often makes troll posts can still make a legitimate post with a salient observation or opinion.
I have been reading through this thread from the beginning (as well as keeping up and participating since then as well), and I have not seen any significant amount of trolling here. The very vast majority of the posters are unified in their desire to have the guild permissions separated from under the "is officer" designation. This is a fact, not an opinion, seen in my daily reading.
Blizzard is not going to look at who is posting and dismiss this issue. A player who posts often, in many different threads, isn't automatically going to have their posts here (or anywhere) considered illegitimate by Blizzard (or by me).
Also, it doesn't matter if a player posting here is an actual Guild Leader. It doesn't even matter if the avatar happens to be guildless. This issue affects EVERYONE, whether or not they are in a guild or are a guild leader. And yes, you can look at THIS avatar and see that he is a guild leader of a tiny, private guild (which I've actually mentioned in several posts). Big whoop. It doesn't tell you how many of my other 36 alts might be running guilds or not. I have occasionally posted here on my "main", who is not a guild leader. Does her not being in charge of a guild really make those posts troll posts?
Cheheals, I think we're all on the same side here. But saying that only posts from guild leaders in active guilds count as non-trolling is not even remotely helpful.
Suggestions, complaints, opinions, and ideas can be presented by any player. The avatar they choose to post on doesn't affect the legitimacy of the post.
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Checking in again to make sure my voice is heard. Everyone contributing to this discussion needs to keep doing so. So far we've been ignored.
As of right now, I haven't assigned anyone in our guild with the "Is Officer" box since there are certain permissions I will not assign to anyone in the guild, regardless of rank. As a result of this, nobody in the guild has access to any of those eight privileges since they're all lumped together in a one-size-fits-all definition of an officer, as defined by someone at Blizzard's WoW team.
Please give us the individual permission customization we had prior to patch 8.0. That's it. That's all I'm asking for.
For further recommendations to help guild management, add a complete log/record system for the guild bank so the guild master can keep track of cumulative records on gold deposits, gold repairs, gold withdraws, item deposits, and item withdraws. If WoW developers can create and maintain a statistics tab with all kinds of totally useless information for my character, they can add a simple feature that lets me keep track of a few guild bank records. That would actually help guilds. Many other recommendations have already been made in this thread.
Please address this problem sooner than later. This thread began on July 17. We're now at October 21. I'm not asking for an apology. Just revert the permissions change. That's it. Many people have already given detailed explanations and feedback here over these 98 pages. You have what you need, and the "discussion" has already occurred. Read it, and pass the information along to the next group of people who need to make the correction. Failure to do so will just further the stereotypes of poor communication at Activision Blizzard.
I will continue to check in here until the change is made. Everyone else needs to do so, too.
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