"Something something something improved communication something something."
~Blizzard
Hey, MVP Greens, please point some devs this way. If you can answer for Pancakes and Syrup, you can direct some eyes here too.
I remember hearing that BfA would bring "Community upgrades and advancements for guilds".
I remember how excited I got about that. Telling all my guildies that guilds were FINALLY getting a once over.
Little did I know that meant making 70% of my ranks devoid of any difference and forcing me to work harder because I am not allowed to tier my officers. This is killing my guild, please can we get SOMETHING? anything
I remember how excited I got about that. Telling all my guildies that guilds were FINALLY getting a once over.
Little did I know that meant making 70% of my ranks devoid of any difference and forcing me to work harder because I am not allowed to tier my officers. This is killing my guild, please can we get SOMETHING? anything
bump!
66 days later, here we are.
I figured out how to get a guaranteed response! We need to get this thread renamed to:
"Subs falling b/c Azerite Dreadwake needs Flying Brewfest Trinket Scaling is Boring and Bliz doesn't care lol"
"Subs falling b/c Azerite Dreadwake needs Flying Brewfest Trinket Scaling is Boring and Bliz doesn't care lol"
Suggstion: Ban Raider ios
How we'd use it: To get some attention to our plight on the forums because right now the devs care more about Dreadwake complaints and sub number threads.
How it could be implemented: We're in the complete dark and are grasping at straws to get some attention to this matter. So if you ban it at our request, people will ask why and we can say "Because we needed to get somebody to notice this problem!"
How we'd use it: To get some attention to our plight on the forums because right now the devs care more about Dreadwake complaints and sub number threads.
How it could be implemented: We're in the complete dark and are grasping at straws to get some attention to this matter. So if you ban it at our request, people will ask why and we can say "Because we needed to get somebody to notice this problem!"
Well, you succeeded in making me laugh, which is far better than the way this thread usually makes me feel. Thanks. :)09/21/2018 12:56 PMPosted by VenjinSuggstion: Ban Raider ios
How we'd use it: To get some attention to our plight on the forums because right now the devs care more about Dreadwake complaints and sub number threads.
How it's could be implemented: We're in the complete dark and are grasping at straws to get some attention to this matter. So if you ban it at our request, people will ask why and we can say "Because we needed to get somebody to notice this problem!"
Now I'm off to read more of the earlier posts and pick one to bring forward.
Still on page 24. There was a really good convo going on regarding security and the guild permissions. I already highlighted earlier portions, but really, this is too good to skip over.
I really wish someone at Blizzard would look at these suggestions and reasons why the current all-in-one guild permissions just don't work. This lack of response is truly becoming frustrating.
07/24/2018 07:05 PMPosted by Angosia07/24/2018 06:58 PMPosted by ÆthelwulfI would like to expound on this topic and actually focus in on the principle stated in the second paragraph. Specifically the Principle of Least Privilege. There are literally enough volumes on this concept to fill libraries to overflowing.
The Principle of Least Privilege (PoLP) is the standard of Information Security that is adhered to by most if not all corporations (both public and private) government agencies (whether Global Federal State or Local in scope). It is the heart and soul of profile or role based security systems.
Thank you! It's nice to see another of my stripe around. Rare as we may be.
As you saw in my post, I'm all for giving both modes to players. Simple for those who don't want to manage those permissions (and agree to the concept that simple setup right now probably means more trouble later) and Advanced for those who do want to manage those permissions (and agree to the concept that advanced now means longer initial setup now and less trouble later).
I like how you called out the role-based reasoning for adding/removing folks from permission groups/roles. That's something that folks outside of security don't usually get to see. In the context of the game, that's why the "Ranks" are in the guild (and you can set the permissions per rank and set the rank name). They're security profiles such that you can have more or less permissions.
Blizzard's recent change to the permissions model sacrifices "principle of least privilege" for simplicity. And anyone in the security space will tell that is almost always a recipe for disaster. Not only conceptually in a theoretical space, but I also provided a real-world example of why it was set the way it is.
Giving a guild the option to choose simple or advanced security models makes sense. It's the same things companies do now: You choose to have less security for the less hassle upfront, but the security folks know on the back-end that it creates a mound of issues later on... OR, you can take more time to set it up the right way at the start and have less changing to do later on with a clearly defined access control policy and technical controls to enforce the aforementioned policy.
I really wish someone at Blizzard would look at these suggestions and reasons why the current all-in-one guild permissions just don't work. This lack of response is truly becoming frustrating.
Bump.... Zzzzzzz.....
Suggestion: Introduce Guild Cliques.
How we'd use it: To form loosely defined groups within existing guild structure to unfairly allocate gold, loot, and privileges under the guise of a "drama-free" structure. Once this is in, maybe a green MVP response will visit our thread.
How it could be implemented: As an extension of the Communities feature, within the new UI. With more blanket-type permissions. Once the idiocy of this idea is realized, perhaps more attention will be drawn to the real problems here.
How we'd use it: To form loosely defined groups within existing guild structure to unfairly allocate gold, loot, and privileges under the guise of a "drama-free" structure. Once this is in, maybe a green MVP response will visit our thread.
How it could be implemented: As an extension of the Communities feature, within the new UI. With more blanket-type permissions. Once the idiocy of this idea is realized, perhaps more attention will be drawn to the real problems here.
I kind of think these already exist. Not in my guild--unless we're all in the same clique. But I've definitely been in guilds where it felt like I wasn't one of the "inner circle" so to speak.09/21/2018 03:58 PMPosted by VenjinSuggestion: Introduce Guild Cliques.
I'm trying to imagine that maybe the mangled guild controls were intended to combat cliques, but no...I've got a good imagination, but not that good.
77
77 pages of posts containing outrage, hurt, complaining, (rightly so), suggesting, solutions, more solutions, begging, asking, pleading, needing, listing, brainstorming, suggesting more suggestions quoting other people's suggestions (a nice idea actually) all in the name of fixing Guild Control or at the very least restoring it to pre-BfA condition.
0 pages of posts containing anyone (NO ONE) advocating or supporting the new guild ui. NO ONE
0 pages of any useful response from Blizzard. ZERO
I said in at least one previous posting here that I would not not forget this, and that I would not go away.
My guild members are going away.
Unsubbing.
Admittedly, it isn't only the new guild ui that's causing that.
BfA has many flaws.
Regardless, my happy little guild is not happy any longer....
I also mentioned that I've played Wow with only one or two minor breaks since late Vanilla, and in that time have created four (4) active accounts. (I pay real money for them. I am a lazy gold making type person)
0 pages of any useful response from Blizzard is showing me exactly what they think of my loyalty, my four accounts, (and my money I suppose)
I said I wouldn't forget.
That is still true.
I said I wasn't going away.
I'm thinking that one over Blizzard.
Seriously.
I have poured YEARS of my blood, sweat, tears, lost sleep, energy, depression, anxiety, worry, joy, excitement, love, etc..etc..into my guild and my game. My guild (ie "community") that I created brings in and keeps players. Players who pay subscriptions. ( Your 'community feature' is I think, not gaining you any) You Blizzard, repay me for my free services by stabbing me in the back and then ignoring me when I cry out in pain.
Blizzard. Please keep the following in mind:
I know when I am not wanted.
I seriously doubt I am the only one.
77 pages of posts containing outrage, hurt, complaining, (rightly so), suggesting, solutions, more solutions, begging, asking, pleading, needing, listing, brainstorming, suggesting more suggestions quoting other people's suggestions (a nice idea actually) all in the name of fixing Guild Control or at the very least restoring it to pre-BfA condition.
0 pages of posts containing anyone (NO ONE) advocating or supporting the new guild ui. NO ONE
0 pages of any useful response from Blizzard. ZERO
I said in at least one previous posting here that I would not not forget this, and that I would not go away.
My guild members are going away.
Unsubbing.
Admittedly, it isn't only the new guild ui that's causing that.
BfA has many flaws.
Regardless, my happy little guild is not happy any longer....
I also mentioned that I've played Wow with only one or two minor breaks since late Vanilla, and in that time have created four (4) active accounts. (I pay real money for them. I am a lazy gold making type person)
0 pages of any useful response from Blizzard is showing me exactly what they think of my loyalty, my four accounts, (and my money I suppose)
I said I wouldn't forget.
That is still true.
I said I wasn't going away.
I'm thinking that one over Blizzard.
Seriously.
I have poured YEARS of my blood, sweat, tears, lost sleep, energy, depression, anxiety, worry, joy, excitement, love, etc..etc..into my guild and my game. My guild (ie "community") that I created brings in and keeps players. Players who pay subscriptions. ( Your 'community feature' is I think, not gaining you any) You Blizzard, repay me for my free services by stabbing me in the back and then ignoring me when I cry out in pain.
Blizzard. Please keep the following in mind:
I know when I am not wanted.
I seriously doubt I am the only one.
1 Like
I know that these threads need to procure interesting and relevant ideas or discussion to remain unlocked, and valid. But at 77 pages of exactly this, and myself being out of ideas to bring any amount of attention to this topic, i'm under the impression blizzard is truly attempting to let this fade into the background.
I feel I am able to /bump this thread all I want now, because of the lack of response to all of our hard thought out ideas and suggestions being straight up ignored.
THIS
NEEDS
TO
REMAIN
RELEVANT
I feel I am able to /bump this thread all I want now, because of the lack of response to all of our hard thought out ideas and suggestions being straight up ignored.
THIS
NEEDS
TO
REMAIN
RELEVANT
BUMP, I also will not just go away. Without guilds this game does not matter. Without guilds this game will die.
From page 25, another excellent explanation of why granular guild controls are absolutely necessary:
I'm going to keep reading through this thread each day and pulling out posts I find especially relevant, but keep in mind this is just my opinion. There are plenty of posts I'm not quoting that others may think are even better than the ones I pick.
Why am I doing this? Because Blizzard asked us for more feedback. Rather than repeat what's already been said (over and over) I just thought I'd highlight some of the feedback already given. Besides, these folks say it much better than I could.
07/24/2018 08:06 PMPosted by Æthelwulf07/24/2018 07:05 PMPosted by AngosiaIt's the same things companies do now: You choose to have less security for the less hassle upfront, but the security folks know on the back-end that it creates a mound of issues later on... OR, you can take more time to set it up the right way at the start and have less changing to do later on with a clearly defined access control policy and technical controls to enforce the aforementioned policy.
In today's information-as-product environment you have to know about the five classification levels of information:
- Public
- Internal Use
- Restricted
- Confidential
Each of those classifications of information have implied exposure, access, risk, and retention schedules. The PoLP was discovered over time and agreed to be the best solution to resolve the problems of exposure access risk and retention of information.
Public information is the lowest level of information security. Anyone has access to it and usually its better if everyone does have access to it as these are generally fliers for products, advertisements, promotions and other things that are used to generate revenue.
Internal Use (lawyers and other professionals often refer to it as work product), is the "sharp knives hot stoves and other machinery in the restaurant kitchen" Raph Kimball always talked about in reference to data warehouse development. Its necessary for the developer to see it. Necessary for the business people to see it, but unnecessarily complicates interactions with customers if the customer is exposed to it. Work Flows, Venn Diagrams, Data Bus Matrices etc. All are usually considered work product and labeled Internal Use
Restricted information: Information that if exposed to the general public may increase operational, reputational, compliance, strategic, or regulatory risk.
This is the stuff that if you divulge it HR and you are going to discuss your future with the company if any and potentially discuss the color of the wall coverings in the cinderblock institution you may soon be a new resident at.
Confidential information: Information that if exposed could cause other people, customers, business partners, vendors, contractors and employees, immediate harm in the form of loss of reputation, violation of compliance and or regulatory rules which in turn result in regulatory risk in the form of fines and loss of stature within the community. Divulge this stuff you are going to be out on your ear at the end of the day and district attorney is likely going to be looking to use your backside to decorate his wall while every newspaper and media outlet scream DATA BREACH THOUSANDS OR MILLIONS AFFECTED.
Without the tools (the PoLP) to be granular enough Data Loss is a near certainty. Data Exposure of Restricted and above PII is also close on to a certainty.
The guild leaders need these tools as they have just as much a duty to their guildmates at every level to protect their data and their inventory as their real world counterparts do.
If it is illegal to divulge CPII in the real world (it is. HIPAA, BSA. PPAAFCA, FCRA, and the list goes on interminably just to name a few that provide severe penalties for divulging CPII), then the virtual world should be doubly careful about its data and its inventories as the speed at which that data makes the rounds is measured in lengths of copper wire 11.8 inches long according to the Good Admiral (Lower Half) Hopper.
Taking away the tools that allow the guild leader to structure his guild is tantamount to making him divulge his company secrets.
I'm going to keep reading through this thread each day and pulling out posts I find especially relevant, but keep in mind this is just my opinion. There are plenty of posts I'm not quoting that others may think are even better than the ones I pick.
Why am I doing this? Because Blizzard asked us for more feedback. Rather than repeat what's already been said (over and over) I just thought I'd highlight some of the feedback already given. Besides, these folks say it much better than I could.
Blizzard.
Fix guild controls and I will provide you with a leaked copy of the Avengers 4 script.
Yes, I am resorting to bribery.
Fix guild controls and I will provide you with a leaked copy of the Avengers 4 script.
Yes, I am resorting to bribery.
The sad fact of the matter is with the implementation of the new blizzard social crap, blizzard moved guild stuff out of the old structure with granular settings and into this new and "improved" one. If you look at the social options, within a group there are just leader, mod and member roles. Blizz cut and pasted that binary setup into the guild perms setup and left it at that. The EPM in charge should just be fired. I don't care if he/she is buddy buddy with a VP.
What I want to know is WHAT IS BLIZZARD DOING to address these issues? I'm fricking pissed off that an engineering organization of such a large magnitude can think it's ok to "richard" over its longtime user-base this badly and just stay silent.
**edited because apparently using the colloquial/shortened form of "Richard" is considered profanity.
What I want to know is WHAT IS BLIZZARD DOING to address these issues? I'm fricking pissed off that an engineering organization of such a large magnitude can think it's ok to "richard" over its longtime user-base this badly and just stay silent.
**edited because apparently using the colloquial/shortened form of "Richard" is considered profanity.
I fully understand that for guild's to participate in the communities UI they need to be changed to this binary format, but why does the addition of communities automatically mean we have to deal with our options being stolen from us?? Why couldn't guilds remain a part of their own UI, and add communities as a seperate one. Sounds like an easy fix to me, unless the coding is so difficult to change now that the hundreds of people annoyed by it will be ignored.
Admittedly, I don't know enough about the issue from a technical standpoint to give an opinion further, but I do know that these changes are bad for my guild. plain and simple.
Admittedly, I don't know enough about the issue from a technical standpoint to give an opinion further, but I do know that these changes are bad for my guild. plain and simple.
Still going through the thread and pulling other players' ideas up for greater exposure. This one from page 25 has a suggested solution for the problem of the permanent chat:
Personally, in most of my guilds it seems people aren't talking in guild chat at all. They're either doing private whisper or using a third party app (such as Discord). I seriously don't think this was an intended result of the changes, but that's what's happening.
07/24/2018 08:18 PMPosted by VerinneOr... don't allow a person to view conversation prior to when they gained access?
Like, instead of removing the ability to review the conversations that you weren't there for (I've found it useful to seeing officer's meetings when I couldn't attend without someone having to regurgitate it), they make it so that you can't see chat you weren't privileged to at the time?
So, someone joins the guild, and they only see guild chat from the moment they joined forward. Someone joins officer rank, and they only see officer chat from the moment they joined forward.
This way, stuff that was 'private' stays private. You know they're going to be in officer chat from now on, so you're not going to say anything offensive or condemning. You may have said it before, but they don't have access to that because they weren't part of that conversation yet.
That said, I'm really a fan of being able to go back and see conversation history. It's something I've felt was sorely lacking in the chat department.
As an aside, this is not a company with legal restrictions or concerns. You're not going to be in trouble if someone saw that you said "X doesn't work well with Y, and they're not very good at Z task, but they're reliable and I think they'd make a good officer despite those things."
Personally, in most of my guilds it seems people aren't talking in guild chat at all. They're either doing private whisper or using a third party app (such as Discord). I seriously don't think this was an intended result of the changes, but that's what's happening.