Seems like we’re going to have to start the expac...without even a comment from Blizzard on how badly they screwed this up for guilds.
I just want to say thank you for clearing up the Public Note and the Guild Speak option in the guild controls.
As I've stated before, while this is a step in the right direction, it's still not quite where it needs to be to properly maintain and manage a guild.
I'm going to go with Greenstone on this and relist some things that I think need to be addressed for guilds. I know that between the both of us and a few others these are often way to long but sadly there are things that have been needed and/or wanted, asked for a LONG time.
Side note as well, I'm going to refer to the new GUI as it would appear they are slowly phasing out the old one.
GUI suggestions:
Last On-line and Zone Sorting
Last On-line, this needs to be fixed where you can sort the "Zone/Last On-line", then "Rank", and keep the chronological order of the "Zone/On-line".
Right now you are not able to sort this properly to effectively clean out the roster. Or be able to assess how active your roster is.
This is not as big of a deal for Communities, being that there isn't as much of a repercussion to if a player is on an Alt or not, but this is needed for guilds.
Full Guild/Community GUI vs. Minimized Version
The full UI is fine and i don't have much to say about it other than the above. However in the "View" (top right drop down menu) options, for guilds specifically, it would be nice if there was a "Guild Status or Statistics" option.
This way you can still see some of the information that was given in the original set up. Some guilds do use that information. I personally use the Last On-line, but I know of guilds that use the amount of achievement points and so on for their guild structure. I would also like to see the Officer Note displayed here as well, since the only way you can see these is by clicking on individual players. (not including addons)
However if the Last On-Line option is an issue to code in for both Guilds and Communities this would be a way to get that in.
The minimized version of this GUI seems a little redundant, since you can make chat panes on the main screen, and have multiple chat panes viewable at any given time.
However it would be nice that if you are using the in-game voice option in this minimized version if it had a side panel showing who was also actively in voice.
Guild Controls vs Community Controls
There is still a lot to be said for guild controls. The controls that are available work just fine for a community. Not trying to be a debbie downer, but a community with the functions within the game is more a group of people in a chat room. There is no other function to it.
I say this cause there is not achievements for community groups, no group vault and so on. While this brings people together on common thoughts, ideas, class, role etc.. that's it.
Given this, a Admin, Moderator and Member setup for Communities makes sense. Where guilds it does not. Guilds require more granular controls because there is overall more structure to them. There is a community aspect to it, and that is where the line between the two is really non-existent.
Otherwise, you have players that lead and organize teams for PvP/PvE events.
Not to mention "Officers" for management purposes, and do more than just "Moderate". This takes a level of communication that is not exactly available in the game unless everyone is on. This is why programs like Discord do so well for MMOs.
This is also why Guild Leaders need more granular controls to allow specific permissions to certain ranks in the guild.
This is why the "Is Officer" option needs to be unbundled. Or an option for "Advanced" features. Depending on the Community this would also be quite helpful.
Personal Note
Having players able to adjust their own note is a major plus and thank you for this. Again having an option to allow other ranks within the guild to edit other people's note would be extremely helpful.
Officer Chat and Officer Note
Officer chat needs to be able to be given out as well as the Officer note. Not all guilds have traditional Officers, this would help with RP guilds, other than making sperate chat channels, which yes is also an option for these guilds.
As stated earlier it would be nice if you could view the Officer Note outside of having to click on individual players or to be able to sort by the note as well. This portion would also be beneficial for Communities as well.
Guild Chat and Community Chat Log
This is something that everyone should have the option to log or not individually. I don't think that this needs to be set by the Guild Lead specifically. This really should just be a personal choice period.
As far as players being able to choose whether or not they can be recorded is redundant. I think it makes players a little more conscious of what they are saying in a public chat board (guild or not), and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Character Linking
This would make roster management 100x easier for both Communities and Guilds. Particularly groups are Alt friendly, instead of having to keep track of notes and remember the many random names of one player.
It would also be nice if the "Last Online" showed that of the most recent played character's time if they are linked. This again would make things easier to make sure that the rosters are active. Again i think this would benefit both Guilds and Communities.
Guild Message of the Day
This needs to be addressed as well. This message is lost with addon spam more often than not, and is almost never seen. The GMotD used to have a space in the GUI a long time ago. This would be more prevalent and players would be able to see it more readily. Something like this needs to be brought back. I or my officers are stuck spamming this message here and there through the day/week to make sure players are up to date currently. Otherwise, I'm using Discord and doing an announcement.
Guild Challenges
This needs to be updated. The rewards are very outdated and do not offer much of an incentive for players to do. As far as I'm aware this has not been adjusted since it's implementation (other than the addition of Mythic Dungeons). Please correct me if I'm wrong.
However, this does not change the fact that the gold reward do not match the current state of inflation in the game.
This goes into the idea as well of Cash Flow being reintroduced for guilds. Please refer to prior post regarding this.
Please, lets try and get this up and going sooner rather than later. I'm not referring to the Soon™ either.
As I've stated before, while this is a step in the right direction, it's still not quite where it needs to be to properly maintain and manage a guild.
I'm going to go with Greenstone on this and relist some things that I think need to be addressed for guilds. I know that between the both of us and a few others these are often way to long but sadly there are things that have been needed and/or wanted, asked for a LONG time.
Side note as well, I'm going to refer to the new GUI as it would appear they are slowly phasing out the old one.
GUI suggestions:
Last On-line and Zone Sorting
Last On-line, this needs to be fixed where you can sort the "Zone/Last On-line", then "Rank", and keep the chronological order of the "Zone/On-line".
Right now you are not able to sort this properly to effectively clean out the roster. Or be able to assess how active your roster is.
This is not as big of a deal for Communities, being that there isn't as much of a repercussion to if a player is on an Alt or not, but this is needed for guilds.
Full Guild/Community GUI vs. Minimized Version
The full UI is fine and i don't have much to say about it other than the above. However in the "View" (top right drop down menu) options, for guilds specifically, it would be nice if there was a "Guild Status or Statistics" option.
This way you can still see some of the information that was given in the original set up. Some guilds do use that information. I personally use the Last On-line, but I know of guilds that use the amount of achievement points and so on for their guild structure. I would also like to see the Officer Note displayed here as well, since the only way you can see these is by clicking on individual players. (not including addons)
However if the Last On-Line option is an issue to code in for both Guilds and Communities this would be a way to get that in.
The minimized version of this GUI seems a little redundant, since you can make chat panes on the main screen, and have multiple chat panes viewable at any given time.
However it would be nice that if you are using the in-game voice option in this minimized version if it had a side panel showing who was also actively in voice.
Guild Controls vs Community Controls
There is still a lot to be said for guild controls. The controls that are available work just fine for a community. Not trying to be a debbie downer, but a community with the functions within the game is more a group of people in a chat room. There is no other function to it.
I say this cause there is not achievements for community groups, no group vault and so on. While this brings people together on common thoughts, ideas, class, role etc.. that's it.
Given this, a Admin, Moderator and Member setup for Communities makes sense. Where guilds it does not. Guilds require more granular controls because there is overall more structure to them. There is a community aspect to it, and that is where the line between the two is really non-existent.
Otherwise, you have players that lead and organize teams for PvP/PvE events.
Not to mention "Officers" for management purposes, and do more than just "Moderate". This takes a level of communication that is not exactly available in the game unless everyone is on. This is why programs like Discord do so well for MMOs.
This is also why Guild Leaders need more granular controls to allow specific permissions to certain ranks in the guild.
This is why the "Is Officer" option needs to be unbundled. Or an option for "Advanced" features. Depending on the Community this would also be quite helpful.
Personal Note
Having players able to adjust their own note is a major plus and thank you for this. Again having an option to allow other ranks within the guild to edit other people's note would be extremely helpful.
Officer Chat and Officer Note
Officer chat needs to be able to be given out as well as the Officer note. Not all guilds have traditional Officers, this would help with RP guilds, other than making sperate chat channels, which yes is also an option for these guilds.
As stated earlier it would be nice if you could view the Officer Note outside of having to click on individual players or to be able to sort by the note as well. This portion would also be beneficial for Communities as well.
Guild Chat and Community Chat Log
This is something that everyone should have the option to log or not individually. I don't think that this needs to be set by the Guild Lead specifically. This really should just be a personal choice period.
As far as players being able to choose whether or not they can be recorded is redundant. I think it makes players a little more conscious of what they are saying in a public chat board (guild or not), and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Character Linking
This would make roster management 100x easier for both Communities and Guilds. Particularly groups are Alt friendly, instead of having to keep track of notes and remember the many random names of one player.
It would also be nice if the "Last Online" showed that of the most recent played character's time if they are linked. This again would make things easier to make sure that the rosters are active. Again i think this would benefit both Guilds and Communities.
Guild Message of the Day
This needs to be addressed as well. This message is lost with addon spam more often than not, and is almost never seen. The GMotD used to have a space in the GUI a long time ago. This would be more prevalent and players would be able to see it more readily. Something like this needs to be brought back. I or my officers are stuck spamming this message here and there through the day/week to make sure players are up to date currently. Otherwise, I'm using Discord and doing an announcement.
Guild Challenges
This needs to be updated. The rewards are very outdated and do not offer much of an incentive for players to do. As far as I'm aware this has not been adjusted since it's implementation (other than the addition of Mythic Dungeons). Please correct me if I'm wrong.
However, this does not change the fact that the gold reward do not match the current state of inflation in the game.
This goes into the idea as well of Cash Flow being reintroduced for guilds. Please refer to prior post regarding this.
Please, lets try and get this up and going sooner rather than later. I'm not referring to the Soon™ either.
Still not looking good.
60+ Pages -- 1000+ comments -- No "Real" Progress.
They have all the feedback needed to fix this massive mistake they made.
They have all the feedback needed to fix this massive mistake they made.
08/12/2018 01:10 AMPosted by IranniaI just want to say thank you for clearing up the Public Note and the Guild Speak option in the guild controls.
As I've stated before, while this is a step in the right direction, it's still not quite where it needs to be to properly maintain and manage a guild.
I'm going to go with Greenstone on this and relist some things that I think need to be addressed for guilds. I know that between the both of us and a few others these are often way to long but sadly there are things that have been needed and/or wanted, asked for a LONG time.
Side note as well, I'm going to refer to the new GUI as it would appear they are slowly phasing out the old one.
GUI suggestions:
Last On-line and Zone Sorting
Last On-line, this needs to be fixed where you can sort the "Zone/Last On-line", then "Rank", and keep the chronological order of the "Zone/On-line".
Right now you are not able to sort this properly to effectively clean out the roster. Or be able to assess how active your roster is.
This is not as big of a deal for Communities, being that there isn't as much of a repercussion to if a player is on an Alt or not, but this is needed for guilds.
Full Guild/Community GUI vs. Minimized Version
The full UI is fine and i don't have much to say about it other than the above. However in the "View" (top right drop down menu) options, for guilds specifically, it would be nice if there was a "Guild Status or Statistics" option.
This way you can still see some of the information that was given in the original set up. Some guilds do use that information. I personally use the Last On-line, but I know of guilds that use the amount of achievement points and so on for their guild structure. I would also like to see the Officer Note displayed here as well, since the only way you can see these is by clicking on individual players. (not including addons)
However if the Last On-Line option is an issue to code in for both Guilds and Communities this would be a way to get that in.
The minimized version of this GUI seems a little redundant, since you can make chat panes on the main screen, and have multiple chat panes viewable at any given time.
However it would be nice that if you are using the in-game voice option in this minimized version if it had a side panel showing who was also actively in voice.
Guild Controls vs Community Controls
There is still a lot to be said for guild controls. The controls that are available work just fine for a community. Not trying to be a debbie downer, but a community with the functions within the game is more a group of people in a chat room. There is no other function to it.
I say this cause there is not achievements for community groups, no group vault and so on. While this brings people together on common thoughts, ideas, class, role etc.. that's it.
Given this, a Admin, Moderator and Member setup for Communities makes sense. Where guilds it does not. Guilds require more granular controls because there is overall more structure to them. There is a community aspect to it, and that is where the line between the two is really non-existent.
Otherwise, you have players that lead and organize teams for PvP/PvE events.
Not to mention "Officers" for management purposes, and do more than just "Moderate". This takes a level of communication that is not exactly available in the game unless everyone is on. This is why programs like Discord do so well for MMOs.
This is also why Guild Leaders need more granular controls to allow specific permissions to certain ranks in the guild.
This is why the "Is Officer" option needs to be unbundled. Or an option for "Advanced" features. Depending on the Community this would also be quite helpful.
Personal Note
Having players able to adjust their own note is a major plus and thank you for this. Again having an option to allow other ranks within the guild to edit other people's note would be extremely helpful.
Officer Chat and Officer Note
Officer chat needs to be able to be given out as well as the Officer note. Not all guilds have traditional Officers, this would help with RP guilds, other than making sperate chat channels, which yes is also an option for these guilds.
As stated earlier it would be nice if you could view the Officer Note outside of having to click on individual players or to be able to sort by the note as well. This portion would also be beneficial for Communities as well.
Guild Chat and Community Chat Log
This is something that everyone should have the option to log or not individually. I don't think that this needs to be set by the Guild Lead specifically. This really should just be a personal choice period.
As far as players being able to choose whether or not they can be recorded is redundant. I think it makes players a little more conscious of what they are saying in a public chat board (guild or not), and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Character Linking
This would make roster management 100x easier for both Communities and Guilds. Particularly groups are Alt friendly, instead of having to keep track of notes and remember the many random names of one player.
It would also be nice if the "Last Online" showed that of the most recent played character's time if they are linked. This again would make things easier to make sure that the rosters are active. Again i think this would benefit both Guilds and Communities.
Guild Message of the Day
This needs to be addressed as well. This message is lost with addon spam more often than not, and is almost never seen. The GMotD used to have a space in the GUI a long time ago. This would be more prevalent and players would be able to see it more readily. Something like this needs to be brought back. I or my officers are stuck spamming this message here and there through the day/week to make sure players are up to date currently. Otherwise, I'm using Discord and doing an announcement.
Guild Challenges
This needs to be updated. The rewards are very outdated and do not offer much of an incentive for players to do. As far as I'm aware this has not been adjusted since it's implementation (other than the addition of Mythic Dungeons). Please correct me if I'm wrong.
However, this does not change the fact that the gold reward do not match the current state of inflation in the game.
This goes into the idea as well of Cash Flow being reintroduced for guilds. Please refer to prior post regarding this.
Please, lets try and get this up and going sooner rather than later. I'm not referring to the Soon™ either.
I won't lie. I'm pleasantly surprised and really excited that we got anything at all before BFA launch. Thanks to everyone at Blizzard who helped out!
While I greatly appreciate the partial resolution, I'm still watching for a complete resolution - the full unbundling of the Officer box. And I look forward to actually hearing from Blizzard.
I also want to say thanks to everyone posting in this thread. I've enjoyed reading your thoughts, and I've frequently wished I had a double thumbs up button.
I just want to say thank you for clearing up the Public Note and the Guild Speak option in the guild controls.
As I've stated before, while this is a step in the right direction, it's still not quite where it needs to be to properly maintain and manage a guild.
...
This is also why Guild Leaders need more granular controls to allow specific permissions to certain ranks in the guild.
This is why the "Is Officer" option needs to be unbundled. Or an option for "Advanced" features. Depending on the Community this would also be quite helpful.
Personal Note
Having players able to adjust their own note is a major plus and thank you for this. Again having an option to allow other ranks within the guild to edit other people's note would be extremely helpful.
Guild Chat and Community Chat Log
This is something that everyone should have the option to log or not individually. I don't think that this needs to be set by the Guild Lead specifically. This really should just be a personal choice period.
As far as players being able to choose whether or not they can be recorded is redundant. I think it makes players a little more conscious of what they are saying in a public chat board (guild or not), and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Character Linking
This would make roster management 100x easier for both Communities and Guilds. Particularly groups are Alt friendly, instead of having to keep track of notes and remember the many random names of one player.
It would also be nice if the "Last Online" showed that of the most recent played character's time if they are linked. This again would make things easier to make sure that the rosters are active. Again i think this would benefit both Guilds and Communities.
...
Please, lets try and get this up and going sooner rather than later. I'm not referring to the Soon™ either.
I second everything you've posted, but the things I've quoted I feel deserve another mention.
I’m sorry, but I really don’t care for the scrap you threw out....
Again, for some guild leaders it benefits them to have players manage their own notes, for others it does not. We do not need cookie cutter settings, we need to be able to make our guilds work the way they are supposed to.
I do not want my 410+ account guild to manage their own notes. I have a structure: name of main/alt etc so I can track them and promote etc. This is absolutely crazy.
At this point you might as well say if you join a guild or community you all have the same permissions and you retain no intellectual freedom over any of it.
So stupid.
Bring back my old UI please. It was broken as !@#$, but not like this.
Again, for some guild leaders it benefits them to have players manage their own notes, for others it does not. We do not need cookie cutter settings, we need to be able to make our guilds work the way they are supposed to.
I do not want my 410+ account guild to manage their own notes. I have a structure: name of main/alt etc so I can track them and promote etc. This is absolutely crazy.
At this point you might as well say if you join a guild or community you all have the same permissions and you retain no intellectual freedom over any of it.
So stupid.
Bring back my old UI please. It was broken as !@#$, but not like this.
There's two days left before the expansion launches without a single communication from Blizzard. I hope we'll get something, but it's not looking likely.
As for the scrap tossed to us (GMs having no control over people setting their own note, option for guild speak privilege), it's nice but misguided. What makes you think that every guild wants to have every member able to change their own notes? What's with these forced guild rules?
My guild is my guild. My members being allowed to edit their own note is nice, but there's already proof that it's not best for every other guild out there; just see the other posts in this thread.
My officers or myself still have to do most of the work in setting people's notes since you won't let non-officers help officers when they invite someone's alt, my members aren't able to speak in officer chat without being able to see officer chat (I use that for suggestion dumping), and as a result there's still tons more work I have to do compared to before - I'm already not being paid to manage all these people, and you're making my life harder?
I have a phrase I like to tell my members: "you don't have to be an officer to be helpful." Well, it's less true with the new UI.
If my point wasn't clear enough: give us our unconsolidated permissions back.
As for the scrap tossed to us (GMs having no control over people setting their own note, option for guild speak privilege), it's nice but misguided. What makes you think that every guild wants to have every member able to change their own notes? What's with these forced guild rules?
My guild is my guild. My members being allowed to edit their own note is nice, but there's already proof that it's not best for every other guild out there; just see the other posts in this thread.
My officers or myself still have to do most of the work in setting people's notes since you won't let non-officers help officers when they invite someone's alt, my members aren't able to speak in officer chat without being able to see officer chat (I use that for suggestion dumping), and as a result there's still tons more work I have to do compared to before - I'm already not being paid to manage all these people, and you're making my life harder?
I have a phrase I like to tell my members: "you don't have to be an officer to be helpful." Well, it's less true with the new UI.
If my point wasn't clear enough: give us our unconsolidated permissions back.
08/11/2018 12:13 AMPosted by HathloPSA everyone: Guild Chat Speak is back in rank controls.
Players now have the ability so set their own note, although there is no permission node for this.
This is a good first step. Please remove the "IsOfficer" checkbox and give us individual rank controls back. Also, please give us the option to disallow or allow set own note.
Blizzard:
While I'm certainly not upset to see a step in the right direction here, I still feel that some communication on what's going on here is needed. Why are changes being made to guild stuff with no communication?
You said it all right here! Why the changes without communication is really something I would like an answer to.
It kind of made me think about the guilds that were in testing, I mean I was in testing but as a guild leader did not think for a minute about forming a guild there. I have in the past with guildies in testing and it's been fun! But we had bigtime guilds like Method et al in there testing...did they not look at the guild controls ONCE? If they did notice them, were they simply okay with the changes? I'm not trying to place blame on them and the other guilds but in a way those guilds in testing are the bulwark of player input. If they don't notice a change or even mention it to the community when they do, it's not really doing anyone except Blizzard a service. I'd be interested if any guild leaders that were in testing have a comment to add here. You're NOT under attack but I do feel some kind of explanation would be helpful here so we have an understanding of how and why Blizzard went forward. Thanks!
Thanks to the update to the Officer UI, my officer title with my guild is pretty much meaningless as far as power goes.
As far as being a leader in my guild, though, that has nothing to do with being an officer. I can help other players at any time.
As far as being a leader in my guild, though, that has nothing to do with being an officer. I can help other players at any time.
As guild masters and officers we tend to focus on tabular data a lot more then the average World of Warcraft player. In some ways a lot of our management "visually" resembles data spreadsheets.
One thing that bugged me from the older UI interface is how some of the column data was presented. At times certain columns I would of liked presented with different columns in different panes of the old interface. I would have to flip between a lot of the pane dropdowns to get specific pieces of information I would need.
I suggest a system similar to the chat system where you check off what columns you want to see in one guild pane. They should also support multiple guild panes to exist (up to 10). This way I can mix and match columns as I see fit. Some pieces of information are useful to others then others. I believe Blizzard can give a lot of flexibility to the guild interface without necessarily having to design what people expect what and where. This allows GMs and Officers to decide how they like to organize there guild tools. Also removes pressure of Blizzard for deciding the "best case scenario" for the design of the guild interface.
One might say what about the horizontal scroll situation and when to account for too many columns in one pane. I say there is a solution to that also. Allow a default value of 50% of screen expansion before a horizontal scrollbar is introduced, and allow this default value to be configured. Blizzard cannot account for all the different screen size situations. Height should also be configurable as well.
Also a good idea would be a "Show this column in collapse mode". The collapse mode for the guild roster in the current community UI panels could be extended to this as well. When I am managing a guild I want to see a lot more information. When quickly looking at the roster for small key pieces of information I do not need the entire panel.
One thing that bugged me from the older UI interface is how some of the column data was presented. At times certain columns I would of liked presented with different columns in different panes of the old interface. I would have to flip between a lot of the pane dropdowns to get specific pieces of information I would need.
I suggest a system similar to the chat system where you check off what columns you want to see in one guild pane. They should also support multiple guild panes to exist (up to 10). This way I can mix and match columns as I see fit. Some pieces of information are useful to others then others. I believe Blizzard can give a lot of flexibility to the guild interface without necessarily having to design what people expect what and where. This allows GMs and Officers to decide how they like to organize there guild tools. Also removes pressure of Blizzard for deciding the "best case scenario" for the design of the guild interface.
One might say what about the horizontal scroll situation and when to account for too many columns in one pane. I say there is a solution to that also. Allow a default value of 50% of screen expansion before a horizontal scrollbar is introduced, and allow this default value to be configured. Blizzard cannot account for all the different screen size situations. Height should also be configurable as well.
Also a good idea would be a "Show this column in collapse mode". The collapse mode for the guild roster in the current community UI panels could be extended to this as well. When I am managing a guild I want to see a lot more information. When quickly looking at the roster for small key pieces of information I do not need the entire panel.
1 Like
Please revert the permission changes and give us the option to not have chat history stick around forever. Until that happens I can't use the in game guild feature anymore.
Revert bad changes!
been awhile since i posted on here but i would still like to see something done about this. I personally look forward to the next Q&A to try and find out some answers.
This is ridiculous even with the bone they have thrown. Revert.
Bump. Because you still haven't put it back. Put it back!
I appreciate the changes that have been made. I really do. That will make things slightly better. A bandaid to get through the next week or so is helpful.
Still feels like a bandaid though. Please fully restore rank by rank granular permissions.
Still feels like a bandaid though. Please fully restore rank by rank granular permissions.
keeping this on the first page
To quote The Matrix:
"Not like this...Not like this..."
"Not like this...Not like this..."
Keeping this on the first page.