Bump.....and i will keep bumping till we get a proper response.
I'm a bit late to the game discovering this strangeness on Blizzard's part. Taking choice away from the players isn't usually a good idea unless said choice is causing some kind of exploit. Is this the case here? Has any reason at all been given as to why this particular lumping together of guild choices were made?
I'll admit I don't have the time to read over all 59 pages here, so if this has already been asked and answered I apologize.
I'll admit I don't have the time to read over all 59 pages here, so if this has already been asked and answered I apologize.
08/10/2018 12:45 PMPosted by LlannaI'm a bit late to the game discovering this strangeness on Blizzard's part. Taking choice away from the players isn't usually a good idea unless said choice is causing some kind of exploit. Is this the case here? Has any reason at all been given as to why this particular lumping together of guild choices were made?
I'll admit I don't have the time to read over all 59 pages here, so if this has already been asked and answered I apologize.
NO reason has been given. There is no exploit that I know of especially, and believe me I have researched cause this made my brain itch, these controls have existed for eight years and they only effect the functionality of the guild nothing else in game is effected by them.
I set a macro to use
Now my main concern is the permissions change. I am upset that people can't edit their own notes because I can't keep track of everyone's alts on my own, and neither can my officers (okay, I currently only have one because everyone else hasn't logged in since Argus wore us all out).
I am also upset that it seems nobody can invite members when they look at the interface that comes up with "J".
If they would fix those two things I'd be happy. I like the communities feature, but not at the expense of the functionality we had before. We are a small guild and need easily accessible recruitment and labeling features to stay alive.
/guildroster and place it in your action bar. Poof, I have the old guild interface available. I have said this to all my guild members. I found it in another thread here.Now my main concern is the permissions change. I am upset that people can't edit their own notes because I can't keep track of everyone's alts on my own, and neither can my officers (okay, I currently only have one because everyone else hasn't logged in since Argus wore us all out).
I am also upset that it seems nobody can invite members when they look at the interface that comes up with "J".
/ginvite [player] still works, but you'd be surprised how many people have no idea how to use the console commands.If they would fix those two things I'd be happy. I like the communities feature, but not at the expense of the functionality we had before. We are a small guild and need easily accessible recruitment and labeling features to stay alive.
Regarding /groster and /guildroster...
With the new UI if someone has picked "appear offline", they will not appear in guild as online. While this may be the intended behavior, they DO APPEAR online still under /groster (and /guildroster).
I'm afraid Blizzard's "fix" for this will be to remove /guildroster the rest of the way which is why I'm mentioning it now. Please, Blizz: Do NOT remove /groster and /guildroster! That will just make a bad situation worse.
Maybe I should give them the benefit of the doubt here, but with the permissions changes I am overly wary. Since that interface is already kind of hidden, I'm worried it isn't supposed to be there at all anymore...
With the new UI if someone has picked "appear offline", they will not appear in guild as online. While this may be the intended behavior, they DO APPEAR online still under /groster (and /guildroster).
I'm afraid Blizzard's "fix" for this will be to remove /guildroster the rest of the way which is why I'm mentioning it now. Please, Blizz: Do NOT remove /groster and /guildroster! That will just make a bad situation worse.
Maybe I should give them the benefit of the doubt here, but with the permissions changes I am overly wary. Since that interface is already kind of hidden, I'm worried it isn't supposed to be there at all anymore...
OK then, as I said taking functionality away from the players like this sort of demands an explanation from Blizzard. Otherwise the players are left to speculate that this was done to make things easier for Blizzard in some way rather than the players who pay for the product. Is this really how Blizzard wants a decision like this to be viewed? A very foolish or lazy choice on their part if so.
Without explanation things like this invite speculation, and such speculation often takes a bitter turn, or adds to other unexplained decisions that gradually sour people on a game they love.
Without explanation things like this invite speculation, and such speculation often takes a bitter turn, or adds to other unexplained decisions that gradually sour people on a game they love.
Revert the permissions changes.
....and the hits just keep on coming.
I do not enjoy only being able to invite on my Main here rather then my Alts as well, second in command so alts are all ranked mid-officer level. We are an Alt friendly guild so this change has been annoying for most of us.
siiiigh.
Just want to handle my officer duties and not have to give everyone full access to do menial tasks.
Just want to handle my officer duties and not have to give everyone full access to do menial tasks.
It's sad to see the game regress...
We as players had...
The freedom to choose what loot system we wanted to use:
Master Looter
Round Robin
Open Roll
Personal Loot
Now that option has been taken away becuse the creators "know whats best"
Players used to be able to trade their gear openly and freely...
This was taken away since the creators "know whats best"
The freedom to be able to use are classes for a clutch play style...
Due to the GCD changes that is not much of an option, becuse the creators "know whats best"
The freedom to create and structor guilds as we saw fit....
With the ability to give individual options to our members.
This allowed us to tailor ranks in the guild so it ran efficiantly....
This is now taken away because the creators "know whats best"
Heck, are the creators going to play for me too? OH and pay my sub fees and the xpac costs... since the creators "know whats best?"
This sound familiar to anyone else?
People want choices and freedom to play a game the way they want to play it. It would be one thing if the game was like this originally, but it wasn't.
And furthermore, the game has gotten a LOT easier over the years to cater to more casual players (I don't have a problem with this completely), but people play games because the CHALLANGE is fun. If it were completely easy it would be BORING.
This is part of the beta testing. But what I will say is this... I did not join a guild in beta because I was more concerned how the classes played, and if there were any major bugs while questing and in dungeons. I did not think to look at guild controls when they have been as they were for over a decade.
I just want to be able to run my guild and my raid team like i've always been able to for the last 10yrs. Please give your players their freedom back.
We as players had...
The freedom to choose what loot system we wanted to use:
Master Looter
Round Robin
Open Roll
Personal Loot
Now that option has been taken away becuse the creators "know whats best"
Players used to be able to trade their gear openly and freely...
This was taken away since the creators "know whats best"
The freedom to be able to use are classes for a clutch play style...
Due to the GCD changes that is not much of an option, becuse the creators "know whats best"
The freedom to create and structor guilds as we saw fit....
With the ability to give individual options to our members.
This allowed us to tailor ranks in the guild so it ran efficiantly....
This is now taken away because the creators "know whats best"
Heck, are the creators going to play for me too? OH and pay my sub fees and the xpac costs... since the creators "know whats best?"
This sound familiar to anyone else?
People want choices and freedom to play a game the way they want to play it. It would be one thing if the game was like this originally, but it wasn't.
And furthermore, the game has gotten a LOT easier over the years to cater to more casual players (I don't have a problem with this completely), but people play games because the CHALLANGE is fun. If it were completely easy it would be BORING.
08/09/2018 08:40 PMPosted by GreenstoneBasically they needed to assess their changes to their product more before they put it into live or even beta but for some reason this seemed so important and rushed that well they skipped a step.
This is part of the beta testing. But what I will say is this... I did not join a guild in beta because I was more concerned how the classes played, and if there were any major bugs while questing and in dungeons. I did not think to look at guild controls when they have been as they were for over a decade.
I just want to be able to run my guild and my raid team like i've always been able to for the last 10yrs. Please give your players their freedom back.
08/10/2018 09:00 AMPosted by GreenstoneIt is now about a month since these changes have been made and we are still struggling with these issues, these fixes are needed to strengthen game play.
- 01. Please revert the permission changes to the guild controls it is damaging our ability to manage our guilds the way we want.
The "Isofficer" setting is too broad and doesn't allow GM's to manage their guilds the way we want.
-- 02. Bring back the "MUTE" players guild chat ability without it we have no way of controlling an argument in guild without kicking people.
Freedom of speech is grand but even in these forums people do not get to say everything they want. Its basically the idea that you do not have the right to yell "FIRE" in a place where no fire is happening without consequences.
-- 03. Fix Community UI panel, place all the Guild Control functions into one button on the bottom of the panel called "Guild Controls".
Please simply use the old Guild Control panel, we do not need the extra fluff, the original panel presents more information in smaller footprint and also is more elegant than the abomination that you current created which splices two different things together.
Players can then continue to use /groster command or the Guild Control button to call up the old panel.
This does two things it basically ensures devs/players in the future will not conflate Community UI panel issues and Guild Control panel issues, and also ensures that Guilds continue to prosper.
-- 04. Fix the LOOKING FOR GUILD utility so that it mimics the LINK ability in the Community UI.
Basically when a user asks for an invite to guild a guild recruiter / officer can send the user a LINK to get invited to the guild even if the user is OFFLINE.
-- 05. Fix the bugs that are associated with the Community UI, especially if you do not modify it like I am requesting above.
For example being unable to invite if your guild has already given you permissions to invite. Seeing everyone who is OFFLINE in the CHATLOG window when you should show only those who are ONLINE maybe add a toggle for this.
-- 06. Fix the GUILD CHAT LOGS so that as guild master you can set the privacy level of it. Give users a privacy level toggle as well.
Basically a guildmaster should be able to make the guild logs record all the time, be privately recording for officers only, or be in full view all the time.
Also you should allow players to set their privacy level as well - record or not - when chat logs are in full view setting. Something they can change on the fly. Example: User doesn't want to be recorded text in guild chat: BOB: User has set privacy on his chat.
-- 07. Fix the LOOT MASTER setting to allow FULL GUILD GROUPS to still use loot master if they so choose, however once the PUG limit on a group has been hit (I believe its 3-4) you can no longer use the option.
Again this is for guilds not pug groups, this will stop bad apples from ninjaing gear/mounts but will ensure that people still have a choice in a guild. Also make all mount drops BOP untraceable this will ensure that you no longer receive tickets about people stealing mounts.
-- 08. Fix the AUTO-INVITE function its a detriment to smaller guild groups that it has been removed.
If you are doing a transmog run you basically can setup a minimum ilvl and auto-invite people for it, by removing auto-invite you basically are making it a more selective system and making it harder for players to find groups. It might seem like a no-brainer but honestly when you are going through trash quickly in a run and just want to fill your ranks to have that "CLASSIC" big raid experience having to piece-meal invites is slow. Also it ruins the ability to invite while afk to the guild garrisons which many people still like to do for pet battles and what not.
-- 09. The Community UI can be used to build communities cross server but basically its a new way to CREATE AND CONTROL CHANNELS, however it fails to read OLD CHANNELS that you have created and ADD them to the Community UI.
So if you have an old channel called "HEALERS" it will not create a community for that channel unless you actually make that with the new UI. This means older channels do not get merged into the new channel that you create. Please add a button to allow channels to be merged.
-- 10. Stop removing functionality that does not effect the game other than to help players play the game.
All of these fixes will not help you win a boss fight you still need to be able to do mechanics or understand your character to do so.
These are utility issues in the game and while they maybe they seem like they need to be "updated" many times updating something means breaking functions that people rely on.
While WOW is Blizzard's property and can be changed in any way they deem fit doing so in a haphazard manner can damage the player relationship with the game, therefore damaging the player communities, and even losing players.
After a 1000+ posts it should be clear that this game has grown since it was first introduced and that players expect a certain measure of respect for tools that they are constantly using throughout the day and the lifetime of the game.
Changes to the game itself is expected such as Warmode, and stat squishes, and balance changes and talent changes, we expect the Devs to do these things to continue to refresh the game and make it feel new for everyone.
However you don't remove basic tools like the ability to chat to other people or group up with other people because these are in effect changes that damage the game play and hurt the players.
The guild tools which have been changed do the same thing they are basically items that guilds rely on constantly and therefore are items that players rely on constantly, by changing them you hurt not just a guild, but the player base.
Yes its your game and you can make the changes you want to it, but do you really want to disenfranchise users who are loyal and WANT to continue to play the game.
Glad to see good ideas the keep coming. It would be great to see this open a broader dialogue about enhancing guilds/communities and not just reverting the changes as some stop gap to appease.
PSA everyone: Guild Chat Speak is back in rank controls.
Players now have the ability so set their own note, although there is no permission node for this.
This is a good first step. Please remove the "IsOfficer" checkbox and give us individual rank controls back. Also, please give us the option to disallow or allow set own note.
Blizzard:
While I'm certainly not upset to see a step in the right direction here, I still feel that some communication on what's going on here is needed. Why are changes being made to guild stuff with no communication?
Players now have the ability so set their own note, although there is no permission node for this.
This is a good first step. Please remove the "IsOfficer" checkbox and give us individual rank controls back. Also, please give us the option to disallow or allow set own note.
Blizzard:
While I'm certainly not upset to see a step in the right direction here, I still feel that some communication on what's going on here is needed. Why are changes being made to guild stuff with no communication?
Back to the top! Revert dumb changes!
08/06/2018 10:15 AMPosted by YthisensExtended the cap once more on this one!
As you can imagine we're aware of this thread but don't have anything to share at this time but just wanted to say thanks for the continued feedback on this one. As soon as we have something to share we will post that for you guys.
You dont have to share anything, just dont go forward with this change, its clearly a bad change and is very unpopular. The current guild permissions system isn't broken, so quit trying to fix it. Streamlining this removes customization options which is clearly a bad thing. Overall the new permissions tab is a huge step backwards in terms of functionality and customization.
Revert the guild permissions changes.
08/06/2018 11:32 AMPosted by NeoxI too am a guild master and agree completely this has been a problem for almost four weeks and still no response from Blizzard this needs to be fixed!08/06/2018 06:58 AMPosted by MiridiaAfter 5 years of being a guild leader, I'm wondering why even continue? We have a very large guild, 916, all who have logged within the last 3 months. I had rank permissions set so everyone felt comfortable and happy. Now I have almost NO control! Are you kidding me? My people can't even put a public note in labeling alts etc?? My people are upset, I'm upset! Blizzard is literally killing my guild!
Its like letting your kids play with matches at the gas station..I'm the guild leader of my private guild and even I'm worried I might do something stupid
Burn it! Burn it aaaallll!
Bliz, please give us back the old UI, the old guild controls, & the auto accept feature. K, thanks!
Bliz, please give us back the old UI, the old guild controls, & the auto accept feature. K, thanks!
60 Pages -- A Month of time to think..... Nothing.
We have given the feedback needed to make something public, on either side of the change.. Awesome.
We have given the feedback needed to make something public, on either side of the change.. Awesome.
08/06/2018 10:15 AMPosted by YthisensExtended the cap once more on this one!
As you can imagine we're aware of this thread but don't have anything to share at this time but just wanted to say thanks for the continued feedback on this one. As soon as we have something to share we will post that for you guys.
Thanks for the response, but I am sorry this isn't good enough. Since there hasn't been a real answer, then i am guessing this was NOT an accident. Therefore, the devs did this on purpose. Which means there were real reasons for this.
Can you at least tell use the reasons. We are sitting here trying to determine if the internal direction inside Blizz is to make guilds harder to run or if this is an unintended result of some other coding/design problem and the goal is NOT to make guilds harder to run.
In short, where is this going? Having a healthy guild and the community that comes along with it keeps many people playing this game that otherwise might not be.
Is the Dev direction that we should not have guilds anymore? In that case, what is the future vision for how to have a community of friends in Wow. Or all we all supposed to be single players?