How is this not fixed yet?
Well, you see, Blizzard would have to acknowledge they broke something to fix it. That's a dangerous road there. Blizzard? Wrong? They might have to question other things they do, and think about changes before they implement them.
Thinking is a dirty word around these parts.
I'm glad to see Blizzard putting development resources into the Guild interface. It's been long overdue. Along those lines I would like to see some Guild perks put back into the game so there's an actual reason for belonging to a Guild once again.
Showing my daily support!
These need changed ASAP - Its destroyed how my guild worked!
Revert the guild permission changes.
Every time I see this thread get bumped I get a little hope inside me that we had a blue actually respond and want to engage in conversation. I don't know why I fall for such nonsense.
Launch in 3 days.
This thread been up for a month.
No responses besides letting us know there are no responses.
I cannot believe how far this company has fallen.
08/10/2018 06:03 AMPosted by
Ssleak
Launch in 3 days.
This thread been up for a month.
No responses besides letting us know there are no responses.
I cannot believe how far this company has fallen.
While Iâm
extremely disatisfied with the guild ui and chat changes, this is also one of the busiest times for them all. Right now I imagine 99.9% of their efforts are going towards ensuring a smooth launch.
It definitely sucks to have lost so much guild functionality and have chat turned from a place to talk with friends into a public chat room... like really sucks. IMO itâs the worst thing that has ever happened to the game.
But for now letâs just keep giving our feedback on this topic and hope for a smooth launch, because that drastically increases how fast weâll get these issues addressed.
08/10/2018 06:50 AMPosted by
Nysalla
08/10/2018 06:03 AMPosted by
Ssleak
Launch in 3 days.
This thread been up for a month.
No responses besides letting us know there are no responses.
I cannot believe how far this company has fallen.
While Iâm extremely disatisfied with the guild ui and chat changes, this is also one of the busiest times for them all. Right now I imagine 99.9% of their efforts are going towards ensuring a smooth launch.
It definitely sucks to have lost so much guild functionality and have chat turned from a place to talk with friends into a public chat room... like really sucks. IMO itâs the worst thing that has ever happened to the game.
But for now letâs just keep giving our feedback on this topic and hope for a smooth launch, because that drastically increases how fast weâll get these issues addressed.
While on the surface that seems reasonable, its been a month. They had time to remove Auto Accept in a hotfix, they can unbundle guild permissions, which had been that way for 14 years. This isnt a "limited resources" problem, especially when they introduced it themselves.
I am incredibly frustrated. Combining the guild and community UI seems to have broken so many things.
Last night, a friend server transferred his other account to bring it into the guild. He shows up in the old Groster but not the new UI. He can't even see anything guild related in the new UI, either. (Known bug, I also posted in CS.)
We're about to launch, people are coming back, new people are joining, and nothing has been done to fix this. This thread has been going on for about a month, and the only response we've gotten is "We hear you but we have nothing to say."
It is now about a month since these changes have been made and we are still struggling with these issues, these fixes are needed to strengthen game play.
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01. Please revert the permission changes to the guild controls it is damaging our ability to manage our guilds the way we want.
The "Isofficer" setting is too broad and doesn't allow GM's to manage their guilds the way we want.
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02. Bring back the "MUTE" players guild chat ability without it we have no way of controlling an argument in guild without kicking people.
Freedom of speech is grand but even in these forums people do not get to say everything they want. Its basically the idea that you do not have the right to yell "FIRE" in a place where no fire is happening without consequences.
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03. Fix Community UI panel, place all the Guild Control functions into one button on the bottom of the panel called "Guild Controls".
Please simply use the old Guild Control panel, we do not need the extra fluff, the original panel presents more information in smaller footprint and also is more elegant than the abomination that you current created which splices two different things together.
Players can then continue to use /groster command or the Guild Control button to call up the old panel.
This does two things it basically ensures devs/players in the future will not conflate Community UI panel issues and Guild Control panel issues, and also ensures that Guilds continue to prosper.
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04. Fix the LOOKING FOR GUILD utility so that it mimics the LINK ability in the Community UI.
Basically when a user asks for an invite to guild a guild recruiter / officer can send the user a LINK to get invited to the guild even if the user is OFFLINE.
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05. Fix the bugs that are associated with the Community UI, especially if you do not modify it like I am requesting above.
For example being unable to invite if your guild has already given you permissions to invite. Seeing everyone who is OFFLINE in the CHATLOG window when you should show only those who are ONLINE maybe add a toggle for this.
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06. Fix the GUILD CHAT LOGS so that as guild master you can set the privacy level of it. Give users a privacy level toggle as well.
Basically a guildmaster should be able to make the guild logs record all the time, be privately recording for officers only, or be in full view all the time.
Also you should allow players to set their privacy level as well - record or not - when chat logs are in full view setting. Something they can change on the fly. Example: User doesn't want to be recorded text in guild chat: BOB: User has set privacy on his chat.
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07. Fix the LOOT MASTER setting to allow FULL GUILD GROUPS to still use loot master if they so choose, however once the PUG limit on a group has been hit (I believe its 3-4) you can no longer use the option.
Again this is for guilds not pug groups, this will stop bad apples from ninjaing gear/mounts but will ensure that people still have a choice in a guild. Also make all mount drops BOP untradeable this will ensure that you no longer receive tickets about people stealing mounts.
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08. Fix the AUTO-INVITE function its a detriment to smaller guild groups that it has been removed.
If you are doing a transmog run you basically can setup a minimum ilvl and auto-invite people for it, by removing auto-invite you basically are making it a more selective system and making it harder for players to find groups. It might seem like a no-brainer but honestly when you are going through trash quickly in a run and just want to fill your ranks to have that "CLASSIC" big raid experience having to piece-meal invites is slow. Also it ruins the ability to invite while afk to the guild garrisons which many people still like to do for pet battles and what not.
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09. The Community UI can be used to build communities cross server but basically its a new way to CREATE AND CONTROL CHANNELS, however it fails to read OLD CHANNELS that you have created and ADD them to the Community UI.
So if you have an old channel called "HEALERS" it will not create a community for that channel unless you actually make that with the new UI. This means older channels do not get merged into the new channel that you create. Please add a button to allow channels to be merged.
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10. Stop removing functionality that does not effect the game other than to help players play the game.
All of these fixes will not help you win a boss fight you still need to be able to do mechanics or understand your character to do so.
These are utility issues in the game and while they maybe they seem like they need to be "updated" many times updating something means breaking functions that people rely on.
While WOW is Blizzard's property and can be changed in any way they deem fit doing so in a haphazard manner can damage the player relationship with the game, therefore damaging the player communities, and even losing players.
After a 1000+ posts it should be clear that this game has grown since it was first introduced and that players expect a certain measure of respect for tools that they are constantly using throughout the day and the lifetime of the game.
Changes to the game itself is expected such as Warmode, and stat squishes, and balance changes and talent changes, we expect the Devs to do these things to continue to refresh the game and make it feel new for everyone.
However you don't remove basic tools like the ability to chat to other people or group up with other people because these are in effect changes that damage the game play and hurt the players.
The guild tools which have been changed do the same thing they are basically items that guilds rely on constantly and therefore are items that players rely on constantly, by changing them you hurt not just a guild, but the player base.
Yes its your game and you can make the changes you want to it, but do you really want to disenfranchise users who are loyal and WANT to continue to play the game.
3 days until launch. This is getting really difficult to deal with. Please REVERT. Sooner the better.
Blizzard please revert the permission changes they are damaging the ability for GM's to actually control their guild the way they should be controlled.
It was fine the way it was before. Please revert the changes.
While explaining how infrastructures work in a software company is very educational and I do appreciate the information this still doesn't excuse what Blizzard has done here.
Agreed! Blizzard really has not provided any information on the who what where and why's. Doing so would go quite a ways to increasing our understanding. Increasing understanding is pretty much always a good thing to do if your goal is to smooth out misunderstandings.
Basically they needed to assess their changes to their product more before they put it into live or even beta but for some reason this seemed so important and rushed that well they skipped a step.
A step? Singular? I'd say they skipped a metric buttload of steps!
As for it being difficult for them to revert the changes, everything you guys have been saying is basically they changed their main code / database and can not revert easily.
Boiling it down, my thoughts are since the code is likely still there and the fields are likely there but no longer used as of a certain date, turning them back on and allowing them to repopulate should be straightforward and minimal changes made to boot.
Isn't it also possible that the changes they made were modular in nature that the routines and databases they modified are smaller and not something that is part of lets say the coding for characters and stats but a smaller routine/module plus database that is connected to the bigger code.
Entirely possible and in fact quite likely. Lazy programming is actually good programming, and one of the tenets of lazy programming is to never write more lines of code than you absolutely have to. That logic means that old code if it can be reused SHOULD be reused, and not mixing featuresets on disparate systems is better than mixing complex systems together in the first place when you may end up unentangling the systems later on.
I bet its more likely their programming has changed a great deal since its beginning and many sections that are part of the game are actually built with the idea of portability so when the infrastructure needs to be rebuilt you can port sections of the application to the new infrastructure and test it to insure it all works while still working on it.
Again true. The dbms will allow ONE database to be the 'master data' or Authoritative Data Source and all other databases will use the ADS as its control and each of the other databases as either backups sources or replication targets.
I bet its more likely their programming has changed a great deal since its beginning and many sections that are part of the game are actually built with the idea of portability so when the infrastructure needs to be rebuilt you can port sections of the application to the new infrastructure and test it to insure it all works while still working on it.
If this is the case the code is probably still in the game, just remarked out, and the old data that the code touched is probably still stored in place but nothing is accessing it. I suggest the fact that the old Guild Roster command works and brings up the old UI as proof of that.
So if this is the case and what I see is accurate then reverting the code is possible with minimal work.
I would certainly hope that this is the case and reversion should be quite easily done. The real question then becomes why has it not already been done?
For the answer to that I will leave it up to Blizzard to answer our question:
Blizzard? Over to you.
cameraman A: Ion? Your on in 5, 4, 3...
Revert the changes. My guild isnt even recruiting while we are stuck with the new permissions.
So...my wife suspended all recruiting efforts.
And I got a 45 min. rant last night on what's broken about the guild controls.
Now, I'll admit, this next part is ALL MY FAULT, but I was playing Assassin's Creed during the rant, and she posed a query right as I was listening to a cutscene. Naturally I didn't answer. Then she got on my case for not listening to her. Its not a beating I want to take again.
So yeah.
Blizz, you need to fix this.
Please remember to put in tickets for this issue, say it how you want to say it, but ask for the guild permissions to be reverted. These should be submitted through HELP>SUBMIT BUG.
You should also contact the DEVS on twitter:
@BlizzardCS
@WatcherDev
@WarcraftDevs
@BobbyKotick
@mikemorhaime
@Muffinus
@Devolore
@DaveKosak
@holinka
Explain the issue clearly and how it effects you that they have made this change if you are a guildmaster state your guild name and size let them know how many players are effected.
"Please remove granular guild permissions and replace them all with a single, monolithic Boolean flag."
-No one, ever.
08/10/2018 11:58 AMPosted by
Osirus
"Please remove granular guild permissions and replace them all with a single, monolithic Boolean flag."
-No one, ever.
BTW thanks OP for starting the thread did you even imagine it would not be resolved yet and have this many post!
Revert the Permissions changes please blizzard. For the love of gamers everywhere!
08/10/2018 11:58 AMPosted by
Osirus
"Please remove granular guild permissions and replace them all with a single, monolithic Boolean flag."
-No one, ever.
Sums it up pretty well for me!
First there's the personal loot thing where we were all too stupid to distribute loot on our own. Fine - I get there are some bad apples out there maybe 5% of the time that leave a lasting impression on people. But are we too stupid to set permissions that they watered it down to basically "Is Officer" and "Is NOT Officer"? Who was this helpful to?
This is helpful to nobody.
This thread has so many great ideas for guild management improvements that I feel completely out of place. I'm posting anyway, just to keep the thread alive. I have a fear that if we let it die, Blizz will never fix these issues.
I'm also getting an interesting education about software design. I really thought they couldn't revert the changes because they've more or less erased the code that was there. According to what I've been reading though, that isn't the way it works at all. So, we're left with a change that no one is happy with, and no explanation why.
I do understand that with a big world-wide launch just days away, this problem isn't a priority. I also understand that it doesn't do any good to complain how long it's been a problem and ask why it wasn't fixed earlier. What's done is done.
What I'm asking--what nearly everyone is asking--is to please have back the control we used to have. Separate the permissions. Bring back the mute option for chat. Let GM's run their guilds the way they wish. And PLEASE DON'T WAIT UNTIL HALFWAY THROUGH THE EXPANSION TO DO THESE THINGS.