give us back our individual rank permissions blizzard
Has anyone mentioned the issue where people that are playing with their Battle.net status set to "Offline" are not shown in the guild roster?
I can understand this being a thing for non-guild communities but it is 100% creepy AF that any guild member can now perpetually ghost the rest of the guild and still see guild chat freely. Guild chat by nature has never been considered "public" and guild members should be able to speak with full knowledge of who is going to see it.
(I realize that now all guild chat is perpetually logged as well, but still doesn't solve the awkwardness in the moment.)
I can understand this being a thing for non-guild communities but it is 100% creepy AF that any guild member can now perpetually ghost the rest of the guild and still see guild chat freely. Guild chat by nature has never been considered "public" and guild members should be able to speak with full knowledge of who is going to see it.
(I realize that now all guild chat is perpetually logged as well, but still doesn't solve the awkwardness in the moment.)
07/27/2018 03:42 PMPosted by ThecheatHas anyone mentioned the issue where people that are playing with their Battle.net status set to "Offline" are not shown in the guild roster?
I can understand this being a thing for non-guild communities but it is 100% creepy AF that any guild member can now perpetually ghost the rest of the guild and still see guild chat freely. Guild chat by nature has never been considered "public" and guild members should be able to speak with full knowledge of who is going to see it.
Hmm can you see them in the old /groster control panel or is it only in the community UI that you can not see them?
07/27/2018 03:43 PMPosted by GreenstoneHmm can you see them in the old /groster control panel or is it only in the community UI that you can not see them?
Good call-out. The old UI still properly shows them; only the new community-embedded roster does not.
07/27/2018 01:35 PMPosted by GreenstoneSo again to point out the main issues:
1. Bring back the original permission setup.
2. Bring back the original Guild Roster 1 button solution.
This will fix 90% of the complaints in this thread.
> New Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/v7WlrcH.png
> Old Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/Fi55wGh.png
As for any of the other suggestions thank you for them I have added my own earlier but some of you like to write as if this is a college thesis paper and every nuanced reflection you make will improve our situation.
To be honest all these suggestions do is muddy an already a difficult decision for the Devs.
If your house is on fire you do not try to figure out how to redesign it at that moment you put out the fire first.
In other words: PLEASE FOCUS!
Be practical and help us with this situation raise your voice up and put in tickets in the game regarding this problem.
Some of us want guilds to move forward. I don't mind the new interface for it... It needs some tweaks and a toggle to use the old one if you want. Please stop minimizing people's suggestions this isn't about what you what it's about having an open platform of ideas and suggestions. When they go through this thread they will have a lot of suggestions some good, some bad, and some good that can't be done. We are stating what we want. You say you respect peoples suggestions and they tell them to stop making suggestions. How do you expect guild to evolve and be competitive again if major changes aren't made. I think it's foolish to get our hopes up to get the old interface back, I personally hated it. So please don't think you are speaking for everyone. We can and will speak our peace and if that bothers you your on the wrong thread my friend :).
07/27/2018 01:35 PMPosted by GreenstoneSo again to point out the main issues:
1. Bring back the original permission setup.
2. Bring back the original Guild Roster 1 button solution.
This will fix 90% of the complaints in this thread.
> New Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/v7WlrcH.png
> Old Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/Fi55wGh.png
As for any of the other suggestions thank you for them I have added my own earlier but some of you like to write as if this is a college thesis paper and every nuanced reflection you make will improve our situation.
To be honest all these suggestions do is muddy an already a difficult decision for the Devs.
If your house is on fire you do not try to figure out how to redesign it at that moment you put out the fire first.
In other words: PLEASE FOCUS!
Be practical and help us with this situation raise your voice up and put in tickets in the game regarding this problem.
I agree that the focus should be on reverting first. The LAST thing I want to hear is "we've heard your complaints and feedback. We're working on a new solution we think you'll love in 8.1".
I don't want them to do anything right now that will take time to implement. Needs to be reverted NOW.
07/27/2018 03:46 PMPosted by Carthorinn07/27/2018 01:35 PMPosted by GreenstoneSo again to point out the main issues:
1. Bring back the original permission setup.
2. Bring back the original Guild Roster 1 button solution.
This will fix 90% of the complaints in this thread.
> New Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/v7WlrcH.png
> Old Permissions UI: https://i.imgur.com/Fi55wGh.png
As for any of the other suggestions thank you for them I have added my own earlier but some of you like to write as if this is a college thesis paper and every nuanced reflection you make will improve our situation.
To be honest all these suggestions do is muddy an already a difficult decision for the Devs.
If your house is on fire you do not try to figure out how to redesign it at that moment you put out the fire first.
In other words: PLEASE FOCUS!
Be practical and help us with this situation raise your voice up and put in tickets in the game regarding this problem.
Some of us want guilds to move forward. I don't mind the new interface for it... It needs some tweaks and a toggle to use the old one if you want. Please stop minimizing people's suggestions this isn't about what you what it's about having an open platform of ideas and suggestions. When they go through this thread they will have a lot of suggestions some good, some bad, and some good that can't be done. We are stating what we want. You say you respect peoples suggestions and they tell them to stop making suggestions. How do you expect guild to evolve and be competitive again if major changes aren't made. I think it's foolish to get our hopes up to get the old interface back, I personally hated it. So please don't think you are speaking for everyone. We can and will speak our peace and if that bothers you your on the wrong thread my friend :).
You are making this about me and you honestly. I apologize if I stepped on your ego or something, but honestly, just focus on the current issue. I respect your suggestions but you are derailing the thread and the fact that its about two things only.
1. Bring back the original permission setup.
2. Bring back the original Guild Roster 1 button solution.
Feel free to hate on me as much as you want but again I didn't say you can't put your suggestions forward, I just asked that you focus on the above things first and what the OP started the thread about. Once they fix those two issues then they can figure out a better solution. Put the fire out first then redesign the house.
Taking a step back isn't progress... I'm done answering you now though
07/27/2018 04:01 PMPosted by Nysalla07/27/2018 03:46 PMPosted by CarthorinnSome of us want guilds to move forward.
Agreed. Which is why we're kind of upset at this change because its a step backwards in many ways.
Right now it is yes.... But if we focus on how to make the current interface better that is progress. If the were to revert the changes it would be a bandaid and lets face it the way it is now is the way it will be. So lets focus on moving forwards because this is what we have now. It's not going to just vanish. It was reverted on pre-patch launch because communities was disabled thats it. We have the chance to have input and make it awesome. So lets do that instead of filling the thread with this silliness.
@Carthorinn & @Greenstone
I think we all want to see the restoration of guild controls. I certainly do, and I think the suggestions for improvements we've all put up require that to happen as well.
I don't think this is as simple as flipping a switch and going back to the old guild system though. I certainly don't think it can happen without extensive testing and server maintenance. Communities caused a lot of under the hood changes, and guilds were converted over to the new system upon a player on the roster logging in. This was detailed as part of the issues with server instability with the launch of 8.0 with load caused by migrating very old accounts in the roster. You can hear that in the last dev QA.
That said, the suggestions I made are assuming that guilds and communities effectively run on the same system, so I posted about how nice it would be to see better integration between the two on top of seeing guild controls and permissions restored and expanded upon.
We're all on the same team, and we all just want to see improvements from where we're at today.
Cheers. :)
I think we all want to see the restoration of guild controls. I certainly do, and I think the suggestions for improvements we've all put up require that to happen as well.
I don't think this is as simple as flipping a switch and going back to the old guild system though. I certainly don't think it can happen without extensive testing and server maintenance. Communities caused a lot of under the hood changes, and guilds were converted over to the new system upon a player on the roster logging in. This was detailed as part of the issues with server instability with the launch of 8.0 with load caused by migrating very old accounts in the roster. You can hear that in the last dev QA.
That said, the suggestions I made are assuming that guilds and communities effectively run on the same system, so I posted about how nice it would be to see better integration between the two on top of seeing guild controls and permissions restored and expanded upon.
We're all on the same team, and we all just want to see improvements from where we're at today.
Cheers. :)
So I know there has been numerous different perspectives on what should be done for the guild systems.
There seems to be two mindsets
1) Fix the permission system to how it was before the change
2) Improve the guild system with more flexible panel views for the roster, configuration, robust log system (seriously the log system is super super slow). Also include a better more full features permission system akin to more modern "role" based systems.
Number "1" obviously needs to take priority for Blizzard and should be patched before the next "minor" patch number 8.1 (.1 is the minor patch).
Number "2" should really not be exclusive to the next (9.0?!?) expansion release. Blizzard really needs to shoot for an 8.1 and 8.2 release to improve the guild system in relation to communities. They should also announce intention to do so to appease the current contention associated with these changes.
What net "positive" effect this thread has contributed to the community and Blizzard is a single point of reference what was working in the system before, but what was actually hard to work overall.
I think we can all concede that communities was a good step in the "communication" aspect of World of Warcraft. Guilds became a sub feature of the communities feature.
It seems Blizzard is maintaining a dual dynamic with the old system and the new, but broke one fundamental thing and that was the legacy full featured (though not very flexible) permission system. This is the only reason why we are still able to use the "/guildroster" command. It also points that Blizzard may of understood these changes could be problematic for guild masters.
The reason this was not really caught in Beta was the lack of preparation to test (if I recall the communities features were a bit late to the party). Obviously they were not focused test as much. This is ultimately where Blizzard "dropped the ball".
There seems to be two mindsets
1) Fix the permission system to how it was before the change
2) Improve the guild system with more flexible panel views for the roster, configuration, robust log system (seriously the log system is super super slow). Also include a better more full features permission system akin to more modern "role" based systems.
Number "1" obviously needs to take priority for Blizzard and should be patched before the next "minor" patch number 8.1 (.1 is the minor patch).
Number "2" should really not be exclusive to the next (9.0?!?) expansion release. Blizzard really needs to shoot for an 8.1 and 8.2 release to improve the guild system in relation to communities. They should also announce intention to do so to appease the current contention associated with these changes.
What net "positive" effect this thread has contributed to the community and Blizzard is a single point of reference what was working in the system before, but what was actually hard to work overall.
I think we can all concede that communities was a good step in the "communication" aspect of World of Warcraft. Guilds became a sub feature of the communities feature.
It seems Blizzard is maintaining a dual dynamic with the old system and the new, but broke one fundamental thing and that was the legacy full featured (though not very flexible) permission system. This is the only reason why we are still able to use the "/guildroster" command. It also points that Blizzard may of understood these changes could be problematic for guild masters.
The reason this was not really caught in Beta was the lack of preparation to test (if I recall the communities features were a bit late to the party). Obviously they were not focused test as much. This is ultimately where Blizzard "dropped the ball".
07/27/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Carthorinn07/27/2018 04:01 PMPosted by Nysalla...
Agreed. Which is why we're kind of upset at this change because its a step backwards in many ways.
Right now it is yes.... But if we focus on how to make the current interface better that is progress. If the were to revert the changes it would be a bandaid and lets face it the way it is now is the way it will be. So lets focus on moving forwards because this is what we have now. It's not going to just vanish. It was reverted on pre-patch launch because communities was disabled thats it. We have the chance to have input and make it awesome. So lets do that instead of filling the thread with this silliness.
Again we are talking about reverting the permissions changes not removing the Community UI.
They still can leave the Community UI the way it is remove all the smashed in Guild Controls and just add a Guild Control button that opens the original guild roster panel.
They can leave it this way until they finalize a working product that satisfies guild master needs rather than use an unfinished concept that does not serve current guilds properly.
I know that you have a different opinion about this and that is great but what you are doing is saying that you are fine with the current changes and this thread is clearly not for that.
Please revert the changes.
I'd love the old options back. I don't like how guild masters have LESS power in their own guilds.
So I know there has been numerous different perspectives on what should be done for the guild systems.
There seems to be two mindsets
1) Fix the permission system to how it was before the change
2) Improve the guild system with more flexible panel views for the roster and configuration. Also include a better more full features permission system akin to more modern "role" based systems.
Number "1" obviously needs to take priority for Blizzard and should be patched before the next "minor" patch number 8.1 (.1 is the minor patch).
Number "2" should really not be exclusive to the next (9.0?!?) expansion release. Blizzard really needs to shoot for an 8.1 and 8.2 release to improve the guild system in relation to communities. They should also announce intention to do so to appease the current contention associated with these changes.
What net "positive" effect this thread has contributed to the community and Blizzard is a single point of reference what was working in the system before, but what was actually hard to work overall.
I think we can all concede that communities was a good step in the "communication" aspect of World of Warcraft. Guilds became a sub feature of the communities feature.
It seems Blizzard is maintaining a dual dynamic with the old system and the new, but broke one fundamental thing and that was the legacy full featured (though not very flexible) permission system. This is the only reason why we are still able to use the "/guildroster" command. It also points that Blizzard may of understood these changes could be problematic for guild masters.
The reason this was not really caught in Beta was the lack of preparation to test (if I recall the communities features were a bit late to the party). Obviously they were not focused test as much. This is ultimately where Blizzard "dropped the ball".
The thing is many of us complained about this in BETA when it was released through the bug channel. (Specifically myself and my guildies.) And it was still released. Sometimes I wonder if they understand that concepts/products should be finished before they are released into the wild.
I agree however that the permissions issue is the most urgent issue and should be fixed as soon as possible. The Community UI is full of bugs and needs to be repaired but it can wait until they have them all figured out and fixed since we can still access the /groster command.
If you haven't seen the bugs on the new Community UI go to bugs forum and look up some of my own posts that list them.
I so wish that the Blizzard employees were subject to the same rules they foist on us. In this case, let them have 3 permission levels - CEO, Management and Peon. CEO can do anything. Everyone else must be split into the people that can do almost anything (order the corporate jet to take you around the world? sure, why not? Take a few million out of the corporate account to buy some trendy new clothes? go for it...) and those that can enter the building, communicate with each other, and leave. How long would people remain working there? How long would the company last? And these are people who are getting paid, we actually pay to be treated like this.
Taking this one step further, remember when in previous expansions entering certain instances (garrison, dungeons, etc) had limit problems where you spent an hour trying to run in and getting a rejection message? Imagine if the Blizzard offices then started acting the same way - after the first few employees enter, the rest get a message at the door to just keep trying. Finally get in and realize you left your lunch in the car? Awwww, that's just too bad...
Bottom line, if you start treating your paying customers in ways you wouldn't put up with yourself, you are in the wrong line of work.
Taking this one step further, remember when in previous expansions entering certain instances (garrison, dungeons, etc) had limit problems where you spent an hour trying to run in and getting a rejection message? Imagine if the Blizzard offices then started acting the same way - after the first few employees enter, the rest get a message at the door to just keep trying. Finally get in and realize you left your lunch in the car? Awwww, that's just too bad...
Bottom line, if you start treating your paying customers in ways you wouldn't put up with yourself, you are in the wrong line of work.
"We love to fix things that aren't broken!"
Blizzard
Blizzard
07/27/2018 04:16 PMPosted by JareffSo I know there has been numerous different perspectives on what should be done for the guild systems.
There seems to be two mindsets
1) Fix the permission system to how it was before the change
2) Improve the guild system with more flexible panel views for the roster, configuration, robust log system (seriously the log system is super super slow). Also include a better more full features permission system akin to more modern "role" based systems.
Number "1" obviously needs to take priority for Blizzard and should be patched before the next "minor" patch number 8.1 (.1 is the minor patch).
Number "2" should really not be exclusive to the next (9.0?!?) expansion release. Blizzard really needs to shoot for an 8.1 and 8.2 release to improve the guild system in relation to communities. They should also announce intention to do so to appease the current contention associated with these changes.
What net "positive" effect this thread has contributed to the community and Blizzard is a single point of reference what was working in the system before, but what was actually hard to work overall.
I think we can all concede that communities was a good step in the "communication" aspect of World of Warcraft. Guilds became a sub feature of the communities feature.
It seems Blizzard is maintaining a dual dynamic with the old system and the new, but broke one fundamental thing and that was the legacy full featured (though not very flexible) permission system. This is the only reason why we are still able to use the "/guildroster" command. It also points that Blizzard may of understood these changes could be problematic for guild masters.
The reason this was not really caught in Beta was the lack of preparation to test (if I recall the communities features were a bit late to the party). Obviously they were not focused test as much. This is ultimately where Blizzard "dropped the ball".
I couldn't have worded this any better. Thank you, Jareff.
07/27/2018 04:19 PMPosted by GreenstoneSo I know there has been numerous different perspectives on what should be done for the guild systems.
There seems to be two mindsets
1) Fix the permission system to how it was before the change
2) Improve the guild system with more flexible panel views for the roster and configuration. Also include a better more full features permission system akin to more modern "role" based systems.
Number "1" obviously needs to take priority for Blizzard and should be patched before the next "minor" patch number 8.1 (.1 is the minor patch).
Number "2" should really not be exclusive to the next (9.0?!?) expansion release. Blizzard really needs to shoot for an 8.1 and 8.2 release to improve the guild system in relation to communities. They should also announce intention to do so to appease the current contention associated with these changes.
What net "positive" effect this thread has contributed to the community and Blizzard is a single point of reference what was working in the system before, but what was actually hard to work overall.
I think we can all concede that communities was a good step in the "communication" aspect of World of Warcraft. Guilds became a sub feature of the communities feature.
It seems Blizzard is maintaining a dual dynamic with the old system and the new, but broke one fundamental thing and that was the legacy full featured (though not very flexible) permission system. This is the only reason why we are still able to use the "/guildroster" command. It also points that Blizzard may of understood these changes could be problematic for guild masters.
The reason this was not really caught in Beta was the lack of preparation to test (if I recall the communities features were a bit late to the party). Obviously they were not focused test as much. This is ultimately where Blizzard "dropped the ball".
The thing is many of us complained about this in BETA when it was released through the bug channel. (Specifically myself and my guildies.) And it was still released. Sometimes I wonder if they understand that concepts/products should be finished before they are released into the wild.
Yes I know :D. I know it was complained about, I am just saying the surface area of exposure was limited.
Blizzard did not have a lot of guild masters testing these features in the beta population, especially if beta invites where not exclusive to guild masters. The problem was not heavily publicized until the population pool became really large with the live servers.
Jareff, I appreciate your participation in the thread we need as many people with a clear viewpoint of the issue in here and hopefully the Devs are aware of the issue and can make the change by Tuesday if at all. I really want to just get back to enjoying the game.
Daily bump to help keep this within the scope of dev attention. My original post can be found here
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=12#post-231
I'm really hoping this can be reverted, and that it's done as soon as possible, until a better solution can be found. If Blizzard is at all interested in some ideas as to how guild admin can function in the future, this thread has some very good ideas that would allow Blizz to feel as though they're updating things but also help keep guild masters in control. Some of the suggestions that stick out to me were the ability to cherry pick ranks and permissions again, as well as, the ability to invite offline characters. This is especially helpful if person is trying to add an alt to the guild.
A few of the bugs/issues we are still having in my guild are:
1) People who transferred from another server can join the guild but are forever tagged with Name-Server label. Wyrmrest Accord is not a connected realm so unless someone phases in, everyone in guild is from WrA.
2) Related to the first issue, we also can't reliably invite those transfers to guild events using the calendar invite option and are frequently unable to invite via the roster. Only sometimes are we able to invite using /invite Name-Server but it's hit or miss.
3) Previously, all my guild members could make guild events and then the ability was taken away. Now, for some reason, only some can even though I've not messed with the settings and not everyone in guild can see or confirm their attendance. So the member made events are just hanging in the wind.
4) Guild (and community) chat is frequently nonfunctional. We had several issues yesterday and one today where anywhere from a few to all of the guild members online (upwards of 16 at a time) were unable to use guild chat.
5) Occasionally, the roster and chat panel will be blank except for my own name (which still may or may not display my online status correctly), and maybe some odd dashes ( - ). Chat history is semi-public so I don't really care if the history is saved, but it seems that if I look at the chat window first, I may not be able to see the roster. I've restored to using a /guildroster macro entirely so I can correctly, and reliably, view my guild window. This is not an add-on issue as I am running stock UI to determine if anything odd is happening in relation to any social features.
Additionally, world channels randomly turn off when I log in. I always have trade and looking for group up in their own tab away from things like party, guild, etc. Since the addition of communities, global/local channels will randomly turn themselves off even if I log out and back in while in a capital city. We also don't need an ability to create a separate "Guild" channel since we already have a guild chat.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765907165?page=12#post-231
I'm really hoping this can be reverted, and that it's done as soon as possible, until a better solution can be found. If Blizzard is at all interested in some ideas as to how guild admin can function in the future, this thread has some very good ideas that would allow Blizz to feel as though they're updating things but also help keep guild masters in control. Some of the suggestions that stick out to me were the ability to cherry pick ranks and permissions again, as well as, the ability to invite offline characters. This is especially helpful if person is trying to add an alt to the guild.
A few of the bugs/issues we are still having in my guild are:
1) People who transferred from another server can join the guild but are forever tagged with Name-Server label. Wyrmrest Accord is not a connected realm so unless someone phases in, everyone in guild is from WrA.
2) Related to the first issue, we also can't reliably invite those transfers to guild events using the calendar invite option and are frequently unable to invite via the roster. Only sometimes are we able to invite using /invite Name-Server but it's hit or miss.
3) Previously, all my guild members could make guild events and then the ability was taken away. Now, for some reason, only some can even though I've not messed with the settings and not everyone in guild can see or confirm their attendance. So the member made events are just hanging in the wind.
4) Guild (and community) chat is frequently nonfunctional. We had several issues yesterday and one today where anywhere from a few to all of the guild members online (upwards of 16 at a time) were unable to use guild chat.
5) Occasionally, the roster and chat panel will be blank except for my own name (which still may or may not display my online status correctly), and maybe some odd dashes ( - ). Chat history is semi-public so I don't really care if the history is saved, but it seems that if I look at the chat window first, I may not be able to see the roster. I've restored to using a /guildroster macro entirely so I can correctly, and reliably, view my guild window. This is not an add-on issue as I am running stock UI to determine if anything odd is happening in relation to any social features.
Additionally, world channels randomly turn off when I log in. I always have trade and looking for group up in their own tab away from things like party, guild, etc. Since the addition of communities, global/local channels will randomly turn themselves off even if I log out and back in while in a capital city. We also don't need an ability to create a separate "Guild" channel since we already have a guild chat.