This change has the absolute probability of having massive negative impacts on guilds. I do not know what Blizzard's thought process was behind this.
Blizzard is totally aware of their playerbase. I'm not bashing here, I am stating facts. Gaming communities in general are full of toxicity and people with less-than-genuine intentions. We all know this. Blizzard knows this. They see it every day all day and have for years. Ignorance is not a factor here.
I am the GM of a large, active guild that I created in 2009 and I have maintained it since then. In other words, I have a lot of experience with how things go down. Name a situation or problem that happens in a guild, and I've probably dealt with it.
One major problem that occurs when you run a successful guild is that it attracts people who want a piece of that "power" for intentions that usually involve personal gain at the expense of negative effects on others. This is a tale as old as time that can be applied to any governing type of body, whether you're talking about world politics or a guild or community in an MMORPG. Again, ignorance should not be a factor here - Blizzard knows this.
So why would Blizzard think it was a good idea to automatically include nearly ultimate power to anyone other than the GM, the person who we absolutely know has 100% pure intentions to their own guilds? The person whose utmost responsibility it is to maintain and protect the integrity and desired environment of the guild? Why would they take away our power to delegate how much power others should be allowed within our own guilds? In doing this, they have taken away our ability to protect ourselves, our guild members, and our guilds as a whole.
Why would they do this knowing what they know? Why have they not addressed this yet in any form? Many of us have made it clear from the beginning what a problem this is, but all we are getting is silence.
Thank you! I am with you guys on every single point made. I am also a very pissed off Guild Master. I no longer have the ability to tailor each rank with permissions as I use to. This is causing more hardships than what it is worth honestly to even have a guild. Editing public notes is now something only officers can do and thus makes trying to remain organized an absolute nightmare. We have those who are bringing alts in the guild mark them as alts of their main in the public note thus limiting the confusion as to who is who. Now that work falls solely upon the officers or I to do.
Secondly, let's not pretend that the WoW Community is wholesome and well behaved. That isn't remotely true. I had a rank for cool down and sort of a holding cell to keep people from stirring the pot in gchat until I or an officer could handle the situation. Them taking the ability away from us to be able to tailor fit each rank with permissions has now crippled us in the sense that we are unable to stop toxic behavior from happening and having a chance to figure out what is going on be it a simple miscommunication (which I don't find a bootable offense) or something else. Now it is more of a situation where you just have to boot someone to keep them from acting out due to frustration or anger about something which I find 100% absurd.
I abhor these changes and really wish Blizzard would listen to the Guild Master Community as a whole before they decide this is the way to go. I know several other Guild Master's that are having the same issues and are upset at the exact same thing listed with in this thread.
If anything, I can only hope that if Blizzard doesn't listen someone out there does and is able to create an add-on that will rectify the situation for the most part.
Secondly, let's not pretend that the WoW Community is wholesome and well behaved. That isn't remotely true. I had a rank for cool down and sort of a holding cell to keep people from stirring the pot in gchat until I or an officer could handle the situation. Them taking the ability away from us to be able to tailor fit each rank with permissions has now crippled us in the sense that we are unable to stop toxic behavior from happening and having a chance to figure out what is going on be it a simple miscommunication (which I don't find a bootable offense) or something else. Now it is more of a situation where you just have to boot someone to keep them from acting out due to frustration or anger about something which I find 100% absurd.
I abhor these changes and really wish Blizzard would listen to the Guild Master Community as a whole before they decide this is the way to go. I know several other Guild Master's that are having the same issues and are upset at the exact same thing listed with in this thread.
If anything, I can only hope that if Blizzard doesn't listen someone out there does and is able to create an add-on that will rectify the situation for the most part.
1 Like
Also, just in order to help people not go completely crazy, you can revert it back to the old viewing style by doing this:
/guildroster
I have it macroed currently and you can view last online that way and what not. It doesn't change the permission abilities but it does fix part of the problem. Stupid that we even have to do this in my opinion but there that is.
/guildroster
I have it macroed currently and you can view last online that way and what not. It doesn't change the permission abilities but it does fix part of the problem. Stupid that we even have to do this in my opinion but there that is.
Plus, the new chat UI is so huge that it makes it really rough to keep the guild tab open when all you want to do is check who's online. Especially since individual UI elements aren't scalable in the base UI.
I did just download the Guild Roster Manager off Twitch. Maybe they could look at that add-on and garner some really good ideas. The only thing that add-on is missing is the permissions ability which would make it 100% worth while. I highly suggest those who haven't looked into that add-on to give it a shot. I am loving it!
07/26/2018 09:18 AMPosted by DarkpunisherI am super surprised that the backlash is not more intense.. as a guild co-gm the changes have affected our guild greatly on functionality.. I cannot properly perform my duties while our main gm is MiA because the blanket change messed up the entire setup we had put in place and destroyed our intended uses to function as a progressive earn your way up guild.. we wanted our members to feel they were progressing in the guild, not be stuck with the same generic crap for each rank.. we need some action on this before it destroys the value of guilds
In regards to backlash, I suspect that most GMs and officers are working really hard to minimize the impact on the rest of their guild. I know I am, and I've talked about it with my officers so they know what to expect. Temporarily, we've instructed members of the guild to contact certain people if they need anything. But this can't really be a long-term fix. It's just a stop-gap.
It would be a mistake to interpret the facts that most of the community is keeping quiet and that guild leaders have created stop-gap measures as a lack of backlash. A far more reasonable interpretation is that A) guild leadership has been more or less successful at explaining the problem to their guilds and B) players generally trust their guild leaders. For now at least, my guild is content to let me represent their interests here on the forums because they know I will do everything in my power to work this out. Do not mistake their silence as a lack of caring. Every member and officer that I've spoken to has responded with some version of "that's really stupid."
In the meantime, we have our stop-gaps while we wait for Blizzard. The problem with this is that most stop-gap measures are time-consuming and cumbersome. The inevitable result of making this a prolonged situation is burnout. And of course, the worst case scenario of a mass burnout of guild leadership has the potential to convert very directly into a large drop in subs. This is a social game, and if the people who put events together leave, it stands to reason that the people who participated in those events will also leave - creating a domino effect of "no one plays anymore." I highly doubt Blizzard wants this to reach that point.
As for your situation with your GM being mia...that is really not good. I had a lower officer rank in my guild that got gutted on permissions. The officer box wasn't checked by default, so they lost the ability to do...well...most of the things they could do previously. I'm willing to bet this happened to other guilds too, and if the GM is deployed, or on vacation, or otherwise unable to address it...ouch.
Blizzard, we need a solution.
For an additional bump.
Was talking with some of my officers via discord and they got kind of annoyed that they need feel they need to be always ready to hop online in order to invite alts or potential recruits. There is usually someone always online within our core raid team to keep on the look out for good friendly players. thus granting us invite privileges.
Cant tell you how many times our drunk raid nights got us additional guildies because of our shenanigans only for them to come back tomorrow to see if they can join us.
Was talking with some of my officers via discord and they got kind of annoyed that they need feel they need to be always ready to hop online in order to invite alts or potential recruits. There is usually someone always online within our core raid team to keep on the look out for good friendly players. thus granting us invite privileges.
Cant tell you how many times our drunk raid nights got us additional guildies because of our shenanigans only for them to come back tomorrow to see if they can join us.
This is causing nothing but issues.
Unless the plan is to get rid of guilds entirely (which would be a huge shame), we need to at least let people label their own alts. So many people are coming back for BFA and leveling alts, it's really a pain to organize. Please don't make the already hectic time of a new expansion harder on guild leaders than it already is :(
Here are my three posts which I made in Live, PTR and Beta: (Before I found these discussion threads.)
LIve:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765867226?page=2#post-37
Beta:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766536459#post-3
PTR:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766506447#post-1
Basically I have been looking around and more and more of these threads are cropping up on the bug forums and the general discussion forums.
Please make sure you also create tickets in game complaining about these issues especially if you have access to BETA.
This seems to be something they are not sure what to do with since they want to implement their new discord like clone in game but its breaking older systems with the way they implemented the new UI.
In other posts I have explained the use of a MUTE rank, (to stop a guild fight without kicking people and to ensure if someone new gets invited they aren't just a spammer) the use of permissions to allow users edit their own NOTES, (makes it so much easier if you have people with lots of alts) the use of permissions to make multiple officer ranks. (makes it easier to control the guild and gives jobs to different guild members). With the changes they made they break the whole guild tiered/reward system.
It truly has to be reverted.
LIve:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765867226?page=2#post-37
Beta:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766536459#post-3
PTR:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766506447#post-1
Basically I have been looking around and more and more of these threads are cropping up on the bug forums and the general discussion forums.
Please make sure you also create tickets in game complaining about these issues especially if you have access to BETA.
This seems to be something they are not sure what to do with since they want to implement their new discord like clone in game but its breaking older systems with the way they implemented the new UI.
In other posts I have explained the use of a MUTE rank, (to stop a guild fight without kicking people and to ensure if someone new gets invited they aren't just a spammer) the use of permissions to allow users edit their own NOTES, (makes it so much easier if you have people with lots of alts) the use of permissions to make multiple officer ranks. (makes it easier to control the guild and gives jobs to different guild members). With the changes they made they break the whole guild tiered/reward system.
It truly has to be reverted.
07/26/2018 09:18 AMPosted by DarkpunisherI am super surprised that the backlash is not more intense.. as a guild co-gm the changes have affected our guild greatly on functionality.. I cannot properly perform my duties while our main gm is MiA because the blanket change messed up the entire setup we had put in place and destroyed our intended uses to function as a progressive earn your way up guild.. we wanted our members to feel they were progressing in the guild, not be stuck with the same generic crap for each rank.. we need some action on this before it destroys the value of guilds
I know most of us have kept cool because we can't see how Blizzard WON'T fix this. It's that bad of a system...and they must know by all these comments that we all hate it. I've yet to see ONE PERSON say they like it.
But the fact we've gotten nothing but silence is starting to really fill me with dread.
How is this STILL active?
We're going into the weeks where lots of people will be coming back to the game to play new content. And our ability to grow and manage our guilds is worse off than ever!
07/26/2018 09:18 AMPosted by DarkpunisherI am super surprised that the backlash is not more intense.. as a guild co-gm the changes have affected our guild greatly on functionality.. I cannot properly perform my duties while our main gm is MiA because the blanket change messed up the entire setup we had put in place and destroyed our intended uses to function as a progressive earn your way up guild.. we wanted our members to feel they were progressing in the guild, not be stuck with the same generic crap for each rank.. we need some action on this before it destroys the value of guilds
Some guild leaders no doubt have not checked their permissions yet. Think about that pending train wreck.
Bumping the thread for ... I forget what. It can't be for the devs to notice us at this point. They clearly do not care if the guilds die from their "care"
No one wanted to be unable to manage their guild blizz. That is not a position a GM would take. Why would you put it in like we'd approve??
I doubt it's resilience and more just general apathy.07/25/2018 06:56 AMPosted by Raicolette26 pages no response though. Clearly shows you their resilience to change or revert the new Guild UI.
07/26/2018 02:01 PMPosted by Mezilrin07/26/2018 09:18 AMPosted by DarkpunisherI am super surprised that the backlash is not more intense.. as a guild co-gm the changes have affected our guild greatly on functionality.. I cannot properly perform my duties while our main gm is MiA because the blanket change messed up the entire setup we had put in place and destroyed our intended uses to function as a progressive earn your way up guild.. we wanted our members to feel they were progressing in the guild, not be stuck with the same generic crap for each rank.. we need some action on this before it destroys the value of guilds
Some guild leaders no doubt have not checked their permissions yet. Think about that pending train wreck.
Bumping the thread for ... I forget what. It can't be for the devs to notice us at this point. They clearly do not care if the guilds die from their "care"
No one wanted to be unable to manage their guild blizz. That is not a position a GM would take. Why would you put it in like we'd approve??
My guild officers didnt even notice the changes untill they started getting request to A. change a note the guild tab. B. invite alts. 2 functions that they normally dont have to do and now they saw what got taken away.
07/24/2018 06:09 PMPosted by KwashiorkorI don't really complain I do like the community thing. However one thing I don't like is the chat log. That's a bit freaky. I'm sure it's intended to be that way to keep people from just speaking their mind.
Problem is, as the start, many will not know their comments are visible to everyone forever, even to players who were offline at the time the comments were made. Possible extreme embarrassment, game quits, etc.
If I wanted social media, I'd join facebook..
My periodic post to ask for the permissions changes to be reverted or improved. We need the granular permissions we used to have and we could use "Edit Own Public Note", "Edit All Public Notes" settings.
Editing to add some limited workarounds:
Use this macro to open/close the old roster window with one key:
This isn't where we want to be, but it is helping us through this rough patch.
Editing to add some limited workarounds:
Use this macro to open/close the old roster window with one key:
/run if IsInGuild() then if not GuildFrame then GuildFrame_LoadUI() end GuildFrame_Toggle() GuildFrameTab2:Click() endUse the Guild Roster Manager (GRM) addon. I was using it before the problems, and it is a great tool. https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/guild-roster-managerThe developer is extremely responsive and has added support for public notes: If a member types "!note note goes here" anything after !note will be their public note as long as an officer with GRM installed is on.
This isn't where we want to be, but it is helping us through this rough patch.
Having a log of officer chat or guild chat isn't a bad thing at all however if its taking up system resources and causing lag then I don't like it a bit the game shouldn't waste resources on that at all. I doubt this is the case.
The biggest issue is the permissions and the actual UI being less than what the older UI was. You can compare the two and see quite easily that the older UI gave more information was much better organized and if you use the /groster command it still works perfectly fine.
Really as I have said before in this thread they need to revert the permission changes. Remove the extra guild stuff from the Community UI. And just place a "Guild Control" button on the bottom of the first page calling up the original guild roster UI. And the problems are solved.
The biggest issue is the permissions and the actual UI being less than what the older UI was. You can compare the two and see quite easily that the older UI gave more information was much better organized and if you use the /groster command it still works perfectly fine.
Really as I have said before in this thread they need to revert the permission changes. Remove the extra guild stuff from the Community UI. And just place a "Guild Control" button on the bottom of the first page calling up the original guild roster UI. And the problems are solved.
Extending a cap doesn't accomplish much besides "containing" a topic that they don't want to spread.
It also means they can Say they're "addressing the topic" by "listening to feedback". If they were actually listening to feedback, a Dev would have responded AND unlocked the cap.
The unlock was simply containment. It was not "we're listening".
It also means they can Say they're "addressing the topic" by "listening to feedback". If they were actually listening to feedback, a Dev would have responded AND unlocked the cap.
The unlock was simply containment. It was not "we're listening".
Often, I play with the guild roster open. That will not be possible if they kill the old roster due to the new the wide screen layout. Hopefully they don't remove it.07/26/2018 03:11 PMPosted by GreenstoneThe biggest issue is the permissions and the actual UI being less than what the older UI was.
You can collapse the chat, but not the roster.
I didn't need to collapse the chat, I can see it in the chat window - I don't need 2 chat boxes.
What in the 7 hells....did some intern stick their tongue on a shaman's thunder totem again? Well atleast they didnt try to lick an object with the petrification oil on it. Glad im the only one in my guild!
Edit: more thematic to the game
Edit: more thematic to the game