Are you really sure you want to talk about this?
You’re the GM of a dead guild, a guild that never was active. You’ve openly stated that you GM an “alt” guild, a guild with no direction. It’s almost like you have no clue how to run a guild.
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And here you are, still continuing with the nasty attitude for no reason.
I’ve been running guilds successfully in three games for nearly two decades. I’ve seen their ups and downs. I’ve seen the ebb and flow. I’ve managed raiding guilds and RP guilds and social guilds.
Ranking systems are important to some. They may not be to you. But to come in here and act like your opinion is the only one that matters, that everyone else is beneath you and a child… that is unacceptable.
If you cannot give constructive opinions without the use of insults and belittling, if you cannot give Blizzard the feedback they asked for, then you deserve no respect and I truly hope everyone will ignore your condescension and not respond again. I broke my silence towards you, because I will not stand to see such toxicity thrown at people who don’t deserve it.
You’re free to have a different opinion. Learn to give it in a respectable and mature manner. This thread will not be brought down into the cesspool of toxicity you tend to create.
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Oh, sweetie. Alt guild is alt guild. Meaning Fumel is an alt. So, like you have no idea what OTHER guilds Fumel’s player might belong to/run.
Now, I happen to know being an alt guild wasn’t always the plan for Fumel’s guild. But the permissions change caused him to abandon his plans and give up on being an active toon running an active guild. So, there is one example of how this change destroyed a guild. (There are other examples throughout this thread, if you wanted to look up more.)
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So, like you would have brought that up in this thread instead of just stuff from an alt guild that never got off the ground in the first place. You’d have made a stronger argument. But anyways…
I don’t need to look them up. Successful GM’s don’t need a checkbox to give perms for who can set the motd, there’s examples of successful GM’s in this thread who’d agree with this statement.
You destroyed your own guild, a checkbox didn’t. If these little changes completely demolished the guild from the core then there was no core to begin with. Successful GM’s learned to adapt without their checkboxes, the others weren’t so successful.
This should should have never been enough to break the guilds bonds and friendships within a guild, if it did then you had bigger issues than a checkbox.
Most of the comments in this thread are from you and about 3 other people. Clearly it wasn’t that huge of an issue from the start. People were mad, like always, then it simmered off after a few days because the masses didn’t care about the changes.
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Many of us didn’t keep subs active, without the guilds they were looking forward to running. What you are ignoring is that the game designers said the loss of granular permissions was not intentional and would we keep giving them information so they could fix it. That was over four years ago.
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Actually, it was a huge issue at the start. That was nearly five full years ago. A few have managed to make the permissions work for their guilds. Many have not. Many gave up on their guilds. Many have simply moved on to other games. (It’s shocking how many lvl 110 and 120 characters are in this thread, and how few 70’s.)
Yes, there are just a handful of us left continuing to post. That’s because we still care about this game and want Ion to keep his promise. Well, that, and some of us are stubborn as heck. As long as I’m still playing World of Warcraft, I’ll keep posting here until our permissions are fixed or the thread is shut down.
I seriously don’t understand your problem. Why do you care if we continue posting here? What difference does it make to you? If the devs do finally get around to breaking up the permissions again, is that going to ruin WoW for you? I mean, you don’t owe anyone any explanation, but I’m genuinely curious why you felt the need to come here and criticize this thread. Are you really just a troll who needs to look down on others to feel good about yourself, or do you have an honest reason for your criticism?
In any case, thanks for helping keep the thread active. Controversy is always a good draw.
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No real GM of a real guild gave their guild up over these check boxes. Name me a single guild that did any actual content together as a guild that fell apart due to solely these check boxes. I don’t consider an alt guild or an auto-invite guild that does nothing with each other to be a real guild and I don’t consider those GM’s to be a real GM. They are only a GM by title.
I don’t know why that’s shocking, most people probably don’t care anymore. And, tbh, most guilds don’t last anyway. Most guilds are started and die off anyway. It’s amusing that you think these check boxes are so important that it destroyed most guilds.
It’s been that way for years in this thread. Out of the 5k posts in this thread more than half of them are from the same dozen characters - keep in mind I said characters and not players, almost 1200 of the posts are you alone.
I don’t have an issue. I don’t understand your issue, most other players also don’t understand your issue.
I can’t stop you, why would I care? I’m still allowed to post my opinion on the matter, that doesn’t mean I care if you post about it also.
I’m curious why you think threads should an an echo-chamber without any opposing views.
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Except you haven’t given any true opposing “view.” You’ve just denigrated our concerns, not offered any reason at all why you disagree. You simply claim that no “real” guild needs granular permissions, despite the many, many posts in this thread–by GM’s of “real” guilds–detailing why such permissions ARE needed and how they were used.
There have also been numerous posts here describing how not all guilds are the same. Your insistence that there is only one correct type of guild, and that no other type is legitimate, is a real problem to me. You’re like the folks that insist there is only one correct way to play WoW, and everyone else is doing it wrong.
Several GM’s in this thread (GM’s of guilds that did content together and were not auto-invite guilds) posted that the permissions were the last straw. I don’t believe any disbanded solely due to the permissions changes. That doesn’t lessen the negative impact of these changes.
At least one GM detailed how they disbanded their guild and reformed it on Classic because there they could run their guild the way they wanted. I don’t know how that guild is doing now. I like to think they’re happily doing Classic content and enjoying themselves.
Yes. After 5 years of posting, the numbers will definitely add up. I post specifically to keep the thread active, and I swore I would continue to do so until permissions were restored or the thread was shut down even if I end up being the only person posting. But I am still not the only one posting. And there have been 857 different users over the life of this thread.
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I have. Here’s lots of them:
That’s a whole different game than retail WoW. Obviously they didn’t care for retail as much as Classic. If micromanaging who can can set the motd was the most valued thing they enjoyed in the game then they have bigger issues to worry about.
It was that way from the start of the thread. It was always mostly a handful of people, that’s how every single one of these threads work. People think their issues are important to the masses, the masses don’t care.
A good GM cares about their members and guild. If a checkbox meant more to that GM than their guild and members did so the GM had to disband the guild then those members are better off in other guilds where the GM cares about them and the guild. Goods riddance to those guilds and “GM’s”. A guild should be about the guild and the people, not about some GM micromanaging a guild with checkboxes.
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Still here, still asking Ion to keep his word.
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I have always been in a 2 player Guild. Now it’s a 1 player Guild because WoW really lost it’s luster.
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Yeah, you totally don’t get it. At all.
Have a nice day.
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Yes they do. And having ranks where you actually earn something and get some permissions helps to foster a good guild and incentivize members to participate is caring.
It is. It’s about rewarding your guild members as they move up the ranks. Especially in roleplay guilds, where ranks aren’t just titles, but they used to come with responsibilities, which was enjoyable to earn a rank and feel a sense of pride that you earned that and the trust of your guild and leaders.
Your dismissal shows your ignorance towards how things actually work. There’s more than a message of the day. All you’re doing here is attacking people and insulting them, while being as condescending as possible. You aren’t here for an actual conversation. You’re just here to act superior. Get off the soapbox. Your way isn’t the only way.
This is unacceptable to have all of this under one rank and ranks may as well not even exist at this point:
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But that’s not how leadership works in real life. You have levels of command, with (hopefully) the most competent and experienced at the top ranks. Everyone can aspire to the rank above them in managable steps. Incompetence is exposed at lower levels. Competent people gain increasing power and responsibilities at each rank.
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Exactly this. It’s very difficult to judge competency and character when first meeting someone–especially online. Having granular permissions allows a player to prove themselves as they move up the ranks and earn more responsibility. The current all-in-one situation is basically all-or-nothing. There is no way to gradually reward members as they prove themselves, so many GM’s end up reserving the “is officer” permission for only themselves and perhaps one or two long-known and trusted friends.
Most WoW players do not know each other in real life. We’re already handicapped when trying to judge if a player is trustworthy or not. New players have limited ways to prove themselves. It’s a mess all around. Granular permissions are not a cure-all, of course. But they ARE a tool that can very much help GM’s run their guilds effectively.
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Feels bad that we were asked to leave feedback here and yet no one from Blizz reads it. At least, they never acknowledge reading it. People brought up a lot of good ideas in this thread, but I have yet to see any of them acted upon. Maybe one day…
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It reminds me of the old thread about Druid auto travel and how we gave input for years on how to fix some of the issues and give people better choices while being ignored. I still dump passengers when I get in the water.
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How we doing this week? I brought a dish to pass. It’s a slow cooker full of German Potato Salad with sausage medallions.
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OMG, that sounds delicious.