If I could muster the enthusiasm to log into the game more often, I’d probably be posting here more often. I just don’t want to even look at my guilds anymore, it’s so depressing. And we’ve got this huge patch coming up with absolutely no mention of guilds.
/sigh
The change to how this all works didn’t utterly crush Discord, but it did make a hank of the players miserable and make real guild cohesion be not-a-thing, so I think it’s probably listed on someone’s accomplishments as a net win.
That’s kind of a depressing thought, but all too believable.
Oh, hello. Just wondering if we’ll ever get our permissions back. You know, since Ion said the change wasn’t intentional and all, and they were working on a fix. Because he would never lie to us, would he? You don’t suppose he just forgot… nah.
Surely there will be an epic update to guilds in the next patch. Wait… there’s not? Seriously? Sun-ov-a…
Yeah, um. Guilds are apparently irrelevant now. At least it seems so as far as Blizzard is concerned.
What is so hard about making check boxes so permissions can be customized? Is there anyone who works in programming who can explain this to me? Would it really cut into Blizzard’s bottom line to assign someone to fix this mess?
The game is an aging dinosaur. Lots of other games have taken from this one all the best parts and offered remedies for the things this one doesn’t. Chief among them is the guild system. Look at Ashes of Creation. I don’t know if that game will make it to launch, but I respect their ability to listen to the players.
This guild system is ‘safe.’ The funding mechanism if you can call them that with weekly challenges might work in a 10-man guild, but barely scratch the surface for 500-man ones. The economy won’t get out of control with inflation, GMs won’t get swamped with complaints about their leaders imbezzling, and everyone will have to buy tokens. I doubt they will change things.
Guilds that try to find ways to earn their repair funds through M+ or PvP runs for gold are banned, due to arbitrary or changing policies. BOE runs only go so far. Those items are already saturating the markets and prices plumetting. All this signals to active player with significant repair and consumable costs that they will remain hungry and miserable unless they buy tokens. This mentality for a sub game comes across as greedy. It’s enough for anyone to consider dropping the game.
Unfortunately, guilds along with factions (mercenaries killed this) and realms (cross-realm queues killed this) will die out. They’ve dilluted their relevancy to nothing. When the institutions in the game lose relevance, the game follows. These remedies do add value and fix problems. The baby was just tossed out with the bath water.
So, looked at the article about content updates for 9.0.5. Nothin’ about guilds. What a surprise. 
I feel like Cataclysm was the last time guilds were “invested” in. Guild perks, etc were fun to try and get with your guildies.
They really do seem to be irrelevant, now. I’d much rather the system be re-imagined to be more like and in-game faction (like one of the million factions we were supposed to grind rep for and then forget about when a new patch came out i.e. Guardians of Hyjal, Silver Covenant, etc.)
If guilds could be cross-faction and provide rep perks at different milestones, that could be cool! Co-op achievements were fun, but there was no pay-off.
Overall, it seems as if the whole of WoW has dropped the emphasis on cooperative community for grindable systems.
When the raids themselves deemphasizes group mechanics in favor of player power derived from gear, solo grind systems naturally replace community. Add to that, the manufactured urgency driven by weekly caps, time with friends is readily overtaken by scarce opportunites to gain an item level.
I hadn’t thought of it this way, but I think you’re right. I’m mostly a solo player, but I don’t think it’s a good idea for a game like WoW to move away from community. Playing with others has always been what made WoW so great.
I don’t want to think that the lack of a fix for our problem with the permissions is indicative of a sea change in how Blizzard regards this game. I’d rather it was something about it not being cost effective than Blizzard really trying to do away with guilds and player cooperation.
-Looks at her watch-
Oh my!
It’s waaaaay past time to remind Blizzard that they broke guild permissions, promised a fix, and then put the topic on ignore.
Hey Blizzard!
While you seem to have forgotten this issue, I for one have not!
Guild permissions are broken and need fixing!
STILL
I’m sorry, I meant to post days ago to ensure this thread never got a “days later” stamp, but it takes searching to find a post that Blizzard doesn’t want visible…
They still haven’t done anything on this?
Sorry, sorry. I’m going to plead the clock change. Thanks for stepping in and picking up my slack, Druunah.
Honestly, it’s hard to give a cluck anymore. Blizz is just flushing guilds down the drain as far as I can tell. It’s not just the permissions issue. There is a tremendous amount awesome feedback in this thread–much of it at Ion’s request–and all of it has been ignored.
I was certain something would have been done for Shadowland’s launch. I mean, they’ve had two years, c’mon! Then I thought maybe there was just too much going on trying to get Shadowland’s going with all the pandemic issues. So I figured we’d get something with the first big patch.
I honestly don’t know how I can keep telling myself things will change. It’s like we’re in some kind of abusive relationship with Blizzard. It’s almost pathetic. If I weren’t so freaking stubborn, I’d have quit trying long ago. But I keep thinking that one day, someone will come along at Blizzard who cares about guilds. Yeah, maybe I need professional help.
Just to be clear…“all of the feedback” has not been ignored.
Within 30 days of the guild permissions changes, based on player input, the “can chat in guild” button was restored.
Just recently, the bug that required new guildies to log off and then back on to be able to gchat was also fixed.
I participated, along with many other guild leaders in getting both of these things addressed. None of that happened as a result of information posted here, of course.
Other guild leaders as well as Blizz have identified this thread as simply addressing needs of RP guilds. This issue will never be addressed by Blizz because there are addons that can fix the concerns you guys have. Please do the hard work of looking into them and fixing your concerns yourself. Blizz is quite obviously not interested in doing this for you. And just to restate it; they have fixed issues that seriously impact the management of other guilds several times already, as I mentioned above.
Che! Glad to see you back, bud! It’s been awhile.
You do know that Ion specifically asked us for feedback on what changes and improvements we’d like to see, right? He didn’t say, “Tell us only what you’d like to see changed for serious raiding guilds.” He also said the permissions change wasn’t intentional and that they were working on a fix. He never said, “Find your own fix.”
So, excuse me if I feel like holding him to his word, okay? I may be wasting my time, but it’s my time to waste.
If only those guild leaders and Blizzard realized how powerful and passionate the RP community is. I’ve never known a group of people so willing to spend money on digital characters that don’t actually exist. 
I know I’ve spent too much! The RP community, I would argue, is actually far more willing to stick around when the game isn’t fun simple because they are too invested in their own stories and characters to abandon them entirely.
That being said, I don’t want to derail the thread. Only to point out that adding in elements that “only RP people” care about usually makes the game more imaginative and interesting for everyone, but also gives a nod to a community that (probably) pays for 90% of the race and faction changes. 
If you don’t trust them to do officer responsibilities then don’t make them an officer.
Yeah, see, that’s the problem, Molokai. All the responsibilities are lumped together. Not everyone wants all those responsibilities, so even if they’re trustworthy, they don’t want to be an officer. Or maybe someone can be “trusted” to do some things, but give them too many things and they start dropping the ball.
It’s just far easier to manage a guild if you can divide responsibilities among several officers instead of having it all lumped together. Not to mention, how do you know if you can trust someone you’ve only known through an online game? By giving them a little responsibility and seeing how they handle it. We don’t have the option to let people earn the GM’s trust anymore.
Then, of course, there’s the concept of advancement and reward, which was how many GM’s used to handle permissions. As a player advanced through the guild, they got rewarded with more responsibilities. All of that is out the window with this all-or-nothing approach we have now.
Lastly, we were specifically told this change was “unintentional” and Blizz was “working on a fix.” It’s been two years, and we’re still waiting for this fix we were told was happening.
This thread isn’t just a few people whining because something got changed. Ion said a fix was coming AND then also asked for feedback on what improvements we’d like to see for guilds. We gave him that feedback, expecting it would be used to make guild improvements along with separating the permissions out like they used to be. If Blizzard has no intention of ever making this fix or listening to any of the feedback, then they should just come here and say so. Otherwise I, for one, am going to keep beating this drum.
I totally agree. WoW is supposed to be an MMORPG. One doesn’t have to be a full-on role-player to enjoy the role-playing aspects of the game. Blizz likes to talk about “immersion.” Nothing is more immersive than role-playing.
The thing is, bringing back granular permissions won’t harm anyone’s game play. GM’s that want to give all the permissions to every officer will always have that option. Right now though, those of us who want flexibility in assigning permissions have no options.
I sincerely don’t understand players like Che, who claim that since it’s not a problem for him, the rest of us are just complainers. How does it hurt him at all for us to want granular permissions? I confess, there’s a teeny tiny part of me that wants Blizz to restore our permissions just so I can say, “Neener neener!” to him. I know, I’m really a bad person.