I don’t believe that. I believe that a GM and officer core who are on the same page keep the guild on focus and in the direction it was designed to be on. If an officer starts to weaken and loses focus then they should be demoted and replaced with a more competent person who can fulfill that position. I believe that a guild, as a whole, comes before any individual in the guild. If the GM weakens and loses care of their guild then the guild is doomed anyway. Permissions to help micromanage a guild are not going to make or break a guild but a weak core does.
I’m not defending this new system, I’m simply stating that if a guild has fallen due to permissions then they were destined to fall anyway. Permissions don’t make a guild.
I agree that a “weak core” will destroy a guild. I think having granular permissions is the opposite of “micromanagement”. It allows a GM to spread the responsibility over a larger base. See the posts on “Principle of least privilege” above.
Alright, lets just talk in regards to the smaller guilds that a number of GM’s have here. In what way do these permissions need to be spread out for these small guilds? A guild with 20 active members doesn’t really need anything more than a GM and a raid/pvp/rp lead, imo. Why would a small guild need so many different ranks of officers or high ranking members with extra permissions?
Many guild masters have already explained in detail throughout this thread how they used these permissions. You could look through and read those.
As far as Fumel’s guild goes, the plan was to grow the guild. Because of time limitations, managing the guild alone isn’t possible. There are permissions lumped under “is officer” that I would like to give to other members to manage, but I can’t do that without giving them ALL the permissions.
It is a casual guild. The idea is to not have a strict structure or hierarchy. There’s not going to be any raiding–unless more people join and want to do that. They don’t need guild management permissions, but some of the other permissions will allow members to run their own groups if they want.
Every guild is different. Every guild has different needs. Just because their needs aren’t your needs doesn’t invalidate the way they run their guild.
I mean, I hate to be the bearer of bad news and all…
In my opinion, if a guild master doesn’t have time for a guild, especially if it’s small and is just now trying to grow then it’s already looking grim and permissions won’t save it. I’m not saying you’re a bad GM but I am saying that if a GM doesn’t have time for their guild then it’s got a bad start of the bat. Being a GM takes time and dedication, especially if you’re trying to get it off the ground.
Don’t get me wrong, we might not see eye to eye all the time or you know, ever, I’m not talking bad about you as a GM but I am saying that it takes a time to dedicate to the guild and if the time isn’t there for you to dedicate then that’s a pretty rough start.
I don’t see permissions fixing a semi-absent or absent GM.
Not absent. Except when my brother died a few weeks ago, I’ve been logging in every day and checking on stuff. Fumel’s guild isn’t going to “die” because it’s not that sort of guild (and was never advertised as such). It’s a guild for alts and players who don’t want the “drama” that comes with a more active guild. Players who want a more active guild aren’t going to join Fumel’s–or if they do, they’ll leave pretty soon.
You just don’t seem to grasp that there are different types of guilds, and the different types can be successful in their own ways. Having separate permissions won’t hurt any other guild’s style of management–they can still give ALL the permissions to everyone if they want. But having separate permissions will really help the many GM’s in this thread who have explained why and how they needed and used granular permissions.
Posters in this thread have also made dozens of suggestions for other guild improvements. Fumel was quoting them to highlight them (because Ion asked for more feedback). I kind of gave up on that because there were so many, I was having a hard time keeping track of which ones I’d already quoted. As much as I want the permissions restored, I’d also love for some of the other ideas to be implemented. Putting more effort into guilds would only be a good thing for the game.
I do, actually. There are as many different types of guilds as there are GM’s with ideas.
Everything about WoW is being streamlined, this was just something that was streamlined as well. If it wasn’t intentional it would have been reversed by now.
I for one am still here Fumel and I have most definitely not accepted the guild permissions in Retail.
I still check this thread daily.
My spouse and I just moved house and we are up to our eyeballs in unpacking and settling in so we’ve not much time for Wow right now until after the first of the year.
Please keep up the good work! I’d be willing to bet several of my many garrisons that most of us following this thread understand the need for granular guild permissions and the fact that a fix was promised us by Ion who represents Blizzard.
Thank you for keeping the lights burning for us here.
I am sincerely sorry for your loss. I always seem to go into a haze whenever I lose a close family member. It’s like everything is unreal. The adjustment to the “new normal” seems to take longer each time. You definitely have my sympathy.
And the whole family holiday bickering thing can be soul-destroying. I feel extremely lucky that I don’t have to deal with that kind of thing (very much). May you make it through the coming “celebrations” with your sanity intact and (fingers crossed) some good cheer in spite of it all.
Maybe Blizz will decide to brighten our holidays by finally separating the permissions like Ion said they would. We can always hope, right?
I just saw these posts Cheheals made 26-odd days ago about me. What the heck? I don’t mean to get into it, but I have to correct this crap.
First, I have no idea why the guild achievements are listed as they are on the armory as Brahmina suggested. Keep in mind that the achievement system didn’t exist up to 2008, and that many achievements had to be redone over the years since they never registered when the system went live or didn’t exist in the early iteration of the achievement system. This includes both individual and guild achievements. Guild transfers may have played a role, too.
Second, you could have referred to our actual website that we launched in Vanilla, which still exists to this day. I still pay for the domain name to keep it alive. You could have also referred to our wowprogress page for some information. That, too, hasn’t always existed and is missing tons of information, especially if you didn’t care to register for years. It’s also inaccurate for several reasons. You could have also looked up my individual character achievements relating to Vanilla and put 2 and 2 together. Record-keeping wasn’t as big of a deal years ago. I’m not just talking about Vanilla, either. Just because something isn’t recorded on website-A doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Don’t be foolish. These things are easy to understand if you’ve been consistently raiding a long, long time.
Third, the reason I didn’t respond to you is because I stop in here once per month (roughly) to help keep the thread going and share my thoughts, just as Fumel said. That’s what matters here - the guild management controls. I am responding to you now to let you know that you were wrong in what you said. You made assumptions and drew false conclusions from them. Someone not responding to your accusation doesn’t equate to you being right. What an illogical way to go about things. The reality is that you just didn’t know what you were talking about.
To the rest of the people here, keep up the great work. Don’t give up on this. Also, if you see people trying to troll here, make sure to flag their posts as such.
OMG my boyfriend has been telling me for years now how “Everquest does ____ better than WoW” or “You know, in Everquest you could ______” or some variation of that.
It is sad that such an old game does certain things better than WoW. Although WoW had good guild management until they broke it by forcing it to be the same as their new communities feature (which btw, is anyone even using?? I don’t anyone who uses it).
I don’t use communities, but I think there are folks who do. I don’t mind the communities feature at all, except that it apparently screwed up our permissions. I’d be perfectly happy with the communities if our permissions got fixed.
I very much like the new guild finder. I got another applicant today. I’m not sure what the time frame involved is, but I noticed they drop off my applicant history after a while. I guess if they don’t respond within that time, the invite is rescinded.
I’m hoping they’ll give us a permissions revamp soon and it’ll be at least as good as the new finder. I’m also hoping for a bank upgrade. I want to be able to assign permissions to look at various tabs based on character, not rank.
Another thing I’d like (though I’m sure some folks would hate it) is some kind of daily guild quest. I’m thinking something that would award guild rep and maybe gold to both the player and the guild–though the guild would get the reward only once per day no matter how many players do it. Though it makes sense to require a guild group to do it, I’d like it to scale so as few as two guildies could do the quest. That way small guilds aren’t left out.
This is the new standard though. Some developer gets it in his head that there is “one good way” to implement or change a feature. He codes it and then the current “leadership” doesn’t want to invest resources in fixing the issue.
Iteration and improvement is not in the blizz development cycle, it’s minimum viable product all the way to end of life.
Wouldn’t the minimum viable product be to leave things alone and not change anything then? It’s not very minimum if they fix or change something that they don’t have to, that’s just extra work on their end. That doesn’t make much sense if they really wanted to go the minimum route.
Developers who are not actively developing something generally get RIF notices at the end of the quarter. It’s in their best interest to be doing something all the time. The fact that they now lack the vision and technical chops to create and execute anything engaging results in our current predicament.
Well, not much longer until they go under if that’s the case. I’m not sure why you even play this game if they don’t give you anything engaging to do anymore.
