I envy you. All of our best officers left over the years due to general disinterest and we haven’t had anybody even remotely interested or qualified in consideration of the position since Legion released.
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It really is hard to find good people to help out with just about anything. The best ones recognize the responsibility they’re being asked to undertake and don’t feel they have the time. The ones who jump at the chance are often the type you really don’t want in charge of something.
That’s why granular permissions are so important. You can’t trust a stranger with a whole pile of responsibility if you haven’t first been able to see how they handle a little bit. And you can’t help someone ease into a role if the only option is all-or-nothing.
It’s obvious to me that the devs who integrated the guilds and communities (resulting in our loss of granular permissions) have never tried to run a guild or manage more than a few people at a time. If they had, they would have seen and corrected the issue before it ever went live. (It’s possible someone did bring up the issue in development and got shot down by a pointed-haired boss on deadline, but we’ll never really know.)
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Here is a post from September last year talking about the true role of guilds in this game:
Lots of people have gone on to play Classic. While Classic’s appeal isn’t limited to the granular guild controls available there, several of the GM’s who posted in this thread have moved their guilds to Classic specifically because of the permissions. Well, that’s the impression I got from their posts, anyway.
My point being, the granular permissions still exist in Classic. Why can’t we get them back in the regular game, too?
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That’s reaching a little far, friend. Classic is an entirely different game than BfA. That’s like saying GM’s moved their guilds to MapleStory 2 due to guild permissions.
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I’m just going by what they posted here. That their guilds were moving to Classic where the permissions would be like they used to be. I’m sure it wasn’t the only reason they moved, but they certainly said it was a reason.
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He’s not reaching. It’s a fact.
For our guild at least.
If the permissions had not been borked, our guild would very likely have “toughed it out” in BfA as we always have through questionable xpacs / content since the original “Classic”
I’ve posted as much right here several times over the last year including quite recently.
Speaking for us, Classic would very probably been no more than a diversion otherwise.
Fix the permissions Blizz.
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Then why didn’t you guys go play an entirely different game than BfA for the last year? I’m not trying to rile anyone up, I just have a really hard time believing whole guilds went to a whole new game over guild rank permissions.
And are we talking a decently sized active guild or a couple players? Because, no offense, your guild roster is showing 18 120’s, I didn’t even check to see if they were alts.
Once again, I’m not trying to stir the pot, I just have a really hard time believing an active guild switched games over this issue alone.
I am unclear as to why “size matters” to you.
I haven’t counted our 120’s to be honest, nor do i intend to at this time. I’ll take your word.
All I can say is: Of course there’s not many!
The guild (as previously stated over the year+) was on life support most of that time.
As was explained here, some of our members did indeed unsub from Wow and go play other games (or whatever)
That would explain your concern of relatively few 120’s on our roster.
Two of those would be mine. This one (Druunah) and my hunter.
In contrast, we were very active until BfA and borked permissions. That was well over a year ago now.
As I’ve said, I have explained all of this here in many multiple posts over the last year plus. I understand however that trying to scroll up and see all of those posts could be quite an undertaking so…
Readers Digest version:
Our guild was a small but reasonably happy and active one for many years from Vanilla through to Legion.
BfA goes live.
Guild members are enthusiastic and hyped.
At first.
BfA starts well for most but quickly sours many of our active members on the game.
Some members unsub.
It is also quickly discovered that beyond the fact that BfA is an xpac of questionable quality and content that most in our guild are not interested in, the guild permissions are useless for how we have always run our guild.
Many of those in the higher ranks unsubbed. While some recruitment continues, the remaining leadership refuses to actively recruit / promote new untried members into an “is officer” position.
More members unsub. Recruitment is at a minimum.
The Gm realizes one day that Classic probably wont have messed up permissions. So she (ie me) poses a question to her guild mates on their guild group page on Facebook “If we create a new guild on Classic, would you join us there?”
To my shock, the response is overwhelmingly positive.
We wait.
Classic goes live.
The "new’ guild is created there.
Many (not all) from the Retail guild join including at least two who unsubbed before Legion.
The new guild is named “Sanctum di Letteres Rosse” and it is much like it’s retail counterpart. Small, respectful, friendly, helpful, etc…and we take pretty much anyone who can be respectful, friendly and helpful.
As is our retail counterpart, we are small and intend to stay that way.
As of this writing, we have approx 25 active members including approx 7 of us from retail with more of us from Retail promising to join us as their real life circumstances allow. We are also still actively recruiting new Classic members.
I have stressed more than once on this thread that our guild is small and always has been. However, we have had a long active run. We were created during the original Vanilla Wow and have endured a lot over the years including a change in Gm’s, poor xpacs, real life player deaths, divorces, etc…etc…etc…
You questioned our size.
I still fail to see the relevance. You disbelieved that an entire guild packed up and left retail for Classic.
Ours (while admittedly small) is indeed a guild and has been so for many many years.
I have actually seen others on Classic chat channels state similar experiences.
(I did not inquire as to their sizes) 
I stated our guild’s plans as we were making them here over the course of several months.
However, I’m sure Blizzard could care less that we’ve opted to set up shop on Classic instead of Retail and will not cause them to speed up any fix they may or may not have for guild permissions.
They still get our sub money one way or the other regardless of which version of the game we play.
We decided to do this because BfA was not and is not a good xpac in our opinions. Stripping the permissions down to simple basics that were (for us) unusable was simply the last straw that broke our backs.
So while I suppose you could make the argument that the dumbing down of permissions was not the direct reason our guild moved to Classic, I’d beg to differ.
I stand by what I said earlier:
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Alright, so in the end it would appear that players wanted to play a different game. I understand that BfA has many downfalls, as a huge chunk of my friends and guildies left this expansion also. A large number did return to play Classic.
But the point I was getting at is that it wasn’t guild permissions that drove players to Classic, but a whole different game than BfA.
If it was only guild permissions that sent such an insanely large number of your guildies to Classic then it’s not going to last long, if that’s the only reason. Massive numbers of players didn’t quit this expansion due to guild permissions, nor did they start playing Classic for guild permissions. They quit because they didn’t like BfA and many seem to enjoy Classic right now. Hopefully it does last long though, hopefully your guild finds more joy in Classic than they did in BfA - as many people seem to be doing.
Which is basically what Fumel said:
Basically, from early on, several of the GM’s posting in this thread said they were looking forward to the guild permissions in Classic–which was Fumel’s* point. No one said everyone who is playing Classic is doing so because of the guild permissions OR that anyone is doing so only because of the guild permissions. Just that some GM’s moved their guilds (or said they would be moving their guilds) to Classic so they could try to rebuild and have granular permissions again.
*I know exactly what point Fumel was trying to make because he and I think with the same mind. Literally.
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You better check a few posts up.
Perhaps this is true in your personal experience.
It is untrue in mine.
It may not have been the only reason, but it was the deciding factor for us.
I’m also sticking by what as said as far as this:
With all due respect, you seem to be arguing a fairly irrelevant point in my opinion.
The people posting here were specifically asked by Blizzard to give feedback.
Despite Blizzard’s silence since, they keep trying to do just that.
The reasons why my guild or anyone else’s guild for that matter, left Retail is seemingly pointless.
What does it matter?
Further. If we’re still going from what Fumel said earlier:
It’s my opinion that regardless of how true or untrue you personally may think what he said is, the point he was trying to make remains valid:
I think everyone (including Blizzard to whom he was providing feedback as asked) understands where he’s coming from.
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I’m not arguing against the idea that guild permissions should be as they were before and was absurd to think it was a fine idea to streamline everything.
I just find it hard to believe that whole guilds got together and were like “you know what? We should go play a whole different game where we have guild permissions again”. I would understand if this active guild wanted a game that most found more fun, but I have a hard time swallowing the idea that a whole guild up and moved games on the sole factor that guild permissions are different. That just strikes me odd that an active guild would come to a consensus like that if they stayed playing BfA this whole time.
Well, now that I reread your post, I see we have come to the conclusion that guild permissions, were in fact, not the sole reason.
Like I said, I understand that guild permissions should have never been changed, but I also won’t ever believe that an active guild would jump games due to guild permissions alone.
We just went through a lot of typing to get back to the original argument.
Drunnah, this was the whole reasoning for my first post, one that you finally came to a mutual agreement with me on. I’m not really sure I understand the back and forth we had over this.
Well, this just got awkward and pretty weird. Comparing the achievements between you and Fumel it would appear that you both literally do think with the same mind…
I’m an OG poster on this thread. I actually had a Blue to respond to us, which this group chose to ignore.
I created a Guild Leader community on my server (Elune/Gilneas). ONE guild leader from the 20 in our community posted a concern here. The rest have told me things are fine, they don’t need granular controls, they have always run a tight ship…like I have.
Not one guild leader from our server let alone our community has “left for Classic”. Create a thread with a vote in general forums on this for us. Please link the thread here and prove your point. Otherwise, like I’ve said many times, it’s just 5 people posting here who are padding stats. You make up stuff as needed, cut/paste people’s comments out of context and otherwise debase yourselves at the altar of…post padding.
@Cladis: There’s nothing to see here. The biggest thing that’s happened here in the last 6 months was me posting about changes for 8.2.5 Scroll up and see! 
And this post will keep them going for for weeks as they dissect my post, quote it out of context, oh and then thank me for helping to add to their post count! lmao…at the sadness of all this.
Honestly man, I have watched this thread for a long while. I’m not going to lie, I always thought this was a pretty dumb remark to make until about 5 mins ago. I rarely check armories and achievements unless I have a hardcore suspicion someone is posting on alts.
Turns out it wasn’t a dumb remark at all and it made sense all along.
gg, sir, gg.
However, I do have to agree with the majority here that the permissions are pretty bad compared to what they were before as GM’s did lose a lot of control over their guilds. In my little opinion, RP guilds were the ones hit the worst on this, I don’t really need to parrot what has been said here about 67 times on why those permissions helped RP guilds.
Overall I still thoroughly enjoy BfA but at the end of the day I do dislike the major streamlining that has happened in nearly every aspect of the game.
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I’ve never made it a secret that Fumel is one of my many alts, so it’s only awkward for you, I suppose. 
Edit: The reason I post on these two characters is because this one is my main forum character, but Fumel is actually a GM. It seemed appropriate to post on him for this thread, but sometimes I don’t feel like switching just to post.
I’m very careful about not upvoting my own posts or upvoting other posts on more than one character. (I think it’s stupid that such a thing is even possible.) I can’t swear that both Fumel and Brahmina haven’t accidentally liked the same post because I don’t check to see who all has liked any of the posts, but I believe I can remember if I read a post and clicked the heart before or not.
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No, the biggest thing was Ion responding in a Q&A that they (Blizz) are aware of our problem with the permissions, agree that it’s messed up, and are working on it. But that’s something you seem to want to pretend didn’t happen.
I keep posting, on this character and Fumel, because the thread is still open, and unless Blizz closes it, I’ll continue to post.
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All of that, and the party I threw at the one-year anni of this threads inception; including the facts of the CM who made this thread has been fired AND we have had no responses from Blizzard at all.
As for the real posters here; let us go on making relevant posts about this egregious state of affairs, while continuing to ignore the current crop of sad little trolls.
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Taking a break from work to chime in that it would be awesome to have a “Guild Loot Coin/Sigil/Consumable” that allows a GM or anybody else with the relevant permission to roll for extra loot in Guild Raids once per boss, with the loot being selected only from gear tables, NOT Gold, AP, or any other misc. drops. You could even make it so anybody with the relevant permission votes on whether the roll should be consumed, on a majority win (ties are a no or yes based upon GM settings in guild controls) using an interface similar to /kick.
It’d just be nice to give guilds a little leg-up on gearing their peeps.
Boss is watching…drums in the deep…they are coming…
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