The new Guild UI and Permissions...yikes (Part 1)

[Rajia-galakrond]

IT department that’s gone a little power crazy and forgot that they are there to support business operations

Noooooooo! I get enough of that IRL!

[Lucyclawless-durotan (Lucyclawless)]

Happy Patch Day, my long suffering guild focused friends.

I don’t expect anything useful for our problems in the patch, but I am looking forward to playing it, hope you guys are too.

And yes. We still need the guild permissions fixed, it’s STILL a pretty big bother!

Lucy, I feel you, we’re similar in size and I recently had to cull inactives to make room for the onslaught of allied alts! Do you use GRM? I’ve found it really helpful for a number of things, mostly keeping alts organized, but also just getting an update when I log in on who was invited, since I have a rank that can invite, but cannot edit notes. >.< Grrrr…

No, I do not use any addons now. I just use an Excel spreadsheet, the Guild Roster Log and guild chat history. Anyone who invites and doesn’t at least say something in guild chat usually gets a strongly lettered word from me. Wouldn’t it be great if they let everyone comment on new players? Hmm…

[Takoda-kul-tiras (Takoda)]

8.2 and no changes. Feels bad, man. I’m trying to tell myself “Don’t stop believin’.”

Is it working yet?

[Fumel-arathor (Fumel)]

I’m trying to tell myself “Don’t stop believin’.”

I tell ya, it’s hard sometimes.

I’m thinking that Blizz doesn’t want to just revert the permissions because that makes it more obvious they screwed up. They want to make some other “improvements” to guilds so they can trumpet how they’re listening and have done all these great things for us, and they’ll slip the permissions in under the rug. Whether or not whatever they come up with is an improvement will have to be seen.

I would love to have even just a few of the many great ideas for guilds that have been presented in this thread. I’d be okay if they just separated the permissions and called it a day. But this ghosting they’ve been doing to us is getting really, really, old.

Ion, don’t tell us you understand our issues and are working on them if you have no intention of actually addressing the problem. I know you’re a lawyer, but for once go against type and BE HONEST. Stop jerking our chains.

[Takoda-kul-tiras (Takoda)]

I’m thinking that Blizz doesn’t want to just revert the permissions because that makes it more obvious they screwed up.

I mean, they did just basically admit they screwed up on classes. So maybe they’ve hit their limit on ownership for the year.

[Mojosmaker-area-52]

/thread

[Dlaciabia-sisters-of-elune (Dlaciabia)]

Wish they’d do Surv Hunter back like it was in Legion…I miss chucking down caltrops and having two kinds of grenades…

[Takoda-kul-tiras (Takoda)]

Melee surv has always baffled me. But I get wanting earlier versions of stuff. Pretty much name a spec, and I prefer an earlier version of it. Even my beloved rdruid. (I miss you instant wild growth and perma tree form. You were so good.)

Just like how I prefer an earlier version of the guild control. Plz Blizz, change is not inherently bad. Balancing happens. Sometimes you’re on top, sometimes you’re not. I’m okay with that. Pointless loss of functionality to the detriment of the game is not something I’m okay with.

[Dlaciabia-sisters-of-elune (Dlaciabia)]

I made a new hunter to try it out when I heard there was a melee spec. Had such a blast that I off-specced it on my “main” hunter that’s been Marks since hunters had to lug water around. Then that patch hit and it was way, way less fun to me. A couple other specs felt janky, like Unholy DK, but I really felt it on Survival the most, I think.

I’ve plodded through fairly well on most all of my toons, though (Prot pally feels kinda boring rn…I feel like I’m always waiting on a CD, and I don’t have a spammy button like warrior or druid). Pepping the classes up would be great, but I can kind of work around it as I’m not trying for AotC or anything.

But there’s no working around these clumped permissions, really. It’s like someone starts a military, and…

"Hey! We’re starting a military!"
“Super! What’s the rank structure going to be l-”
"NO, no, none of that. I’ll be in charge, and everyone else is the same rank."
“…But, who has seniority if-”
"Now now, you’re overthinking it! None of this chain-of-command nonsense! Grab that rifle and head to the border!"
“…we’re all going to die…”

[Fumel-arathor (Fumel)]

"Hey! We’re starting a military!"
“Super! What’s the rank structure going to be l-”
"NO, no, none of that. I’ll be in charge, and everyone else is the same rank."
“…But, who has seniority if-”
"Now now, you’re overthinking it! None of this chain-of-command nonsense! Grab that rifle and head to the border!"
“…we’re all going to die…”

I’m not sure I should have laughed at this as much as I did. Maybe it was that or cry…

[Druunah-ravencrest (Druunah)]

you’re a lawyer, but for once go against type and BE HONEST

I wonder… is there an addon for that?

“Don’t stop believin’.”

At any rate, I suppose that’s like asking a leopard to change it’s spots.

I have a rank that can invite, but cannot edit notes.

That’s a genuine issue Blizz.

I’m not sure if I mentioned this in one of my many posts over the last year-ish here, but the ability for all ranks to make and edit the guild notes is important (at least in our guild)

I know I mentioned how our members like to play games with the guild notes. They sorta zing each other back and forth by changing the public (not officers) notes on one another.

Ex:

The original public note made by Member A : “enjoys tanking dungeons”

Member B then comes along and slyly changes it to read “enjoys petting kittens”

(They are much better at that sort of thing than I am, but I think this illustrates my point)

That’s fun and games between them, and I generally let them have at it.

The only time that I don’t is when someone new joins.

In the past during times of recruitment especially, the guild notes are taken a bit more seriously at least at first.

While in recruitment mode, we often allow all ranks to invite new members. The recruiter is expected to make a note of who invited new Member X and the date that they joined. They are also expected to make a note regarding alt status (if any) of the new member and / or jot down any pertinent info regarding the new recruit.

Ex: Toon X is Member C’s priest alt etc…

This can be a huge help to me as Guild Leader or my officers when it comes to cleaning house or even setting up events.

Alts of regular active members (even if unplayed) are generally allowed to stay. Someone new, that got an invite months ago and never logged back on in the guild is likely to get booted. When I (or one of my officers) is cleaning house, if there is no note, there is often no easy way to tell what toons are an active member’s alts, and what toons are just taking up roster space.

Not making notes like the above examples has led to issues for us in the past.

Several times over the years, I have had to open tickets to Blizzard because some former member with a chip on their shoulder kept coming back on various alts to cause trouble and even harass our guild members.

Of course a guild ability to completely ban a troublemaker’s account from a guild thus preventing the above mention shenanigans would be quite useful as well.

(Hint hint Blizz)

That being said, the ability for all ranks to set guild notes is still important and quite useful in this Guild Leader’s humble opinion.

At a glance it can let me know who does (or likes) what (tank, healer, dps, etc…)

There are of course addons as mentioned.

I am an enthusiastic addon user. I use perhaps too many in fact and I enjoy what they can do.

The issue I have with addons particularly in this case is that they can at times be very unreliable and unpredictable. As a Guild Leader, to put my complete trust in one for this sort of thing is for me, mainly out of the question.

Especially when the (limited) ability is (was) already part of the game.

Also. Addons get bugged or even worse abandoned.

Ex:

Right now with the new patch Auctioneer is broken until it’s creators can fix it. This happens a lot and upsets a lot of people. I have used Auctioneer for years, and I can testify that it might be down for a day or two, or it could even be weeks.

Side note: Years ago Carbonite addon was down so long that everyone thought it was thoroughly abandoned and one enterprising individual took it over briefly and had it back up and running before the actual developer got to it)

Addon users are pretty much at the mercy of the addon creators. Meaning the creators can only do what they can do in whatever time they have to dedicate to the addon. In some cases that isn’t much.

I just can’t imagine having my “trusted” guild addons broken for “??” amount of time every time Blizz throws the game an update. Or worse, have that addon abandoned completely. (The addon Angry World Quests comes to mind)

My apologies, this post got away from me a bit.

Anyway…

While I was writing this, Dlaciabia posted:

"Hey! We’re starting a military!"
“Super! What’s the rank structure going to be l-”
"NO, no, none of that. I’ll be in charge, and everyone else is the same rank."
“…But, who has seniority if-”
"Now now, you’re overthinking it! None of this chain-of-command nonsense! Grab that rifle and head to the border!"
“…we’re all going to die…”

PERFECT!

Blizzard, fix the guild permissions.

[Brahmina-khadgar (Brahmina)]

My apologies, this post got away from me a bit.

You shouldn’t apologize. You wrote a very clear post that gave specific feedback about how you use (or used to use) the permissions in your guild. You also mentioned changes that would be helpful to you, and why. That’s the sort of feedback Ion claims they want. Maybe you did go off onto an add-on tangent, but it was still relevant to the topic.

Thumbs up for you!

[Venjin-bronzebeard (Venjin)]

Holy Eff, I get back from vacation and the Blazers actually managed to ship off Evan Turner’s whack contract before Bliz could revert this.

Simply amazing.

At this rate, the Atlanta Hawks would be better suited to tackle our situation. At least they’re making moves.

[Delirium-bronzebeard (Delirium)]

Man i was so hoping they would address this in 8.2 but alas nothing =(. All the new content sure looks complicated , prob a lot work for the peeps at Blizz. How bout taking a half day during and fix our guild permissions?.. I got alot of guildies playing ATM so now is the time to build numbers and recruit… oh yea sigh with the permissions as they are with the “all or nothing checkmark” kinda hampers an otherwise great time of year “traditionally” for guilds. Keep up the fight my friends! Happy Fire Festival!

[Rhielle-sentinels (Rhielle)]

Man i was so hoping they would address this in 8.2 but alas nothing

Me too. This is ridiculous and I’m tired of no response on it.

[Fumel-arathor (Fumel)]

I keep thinking I’ll go back and resurrect another great post from earlier in the thread just to shine some light on it, but then I get really depressed thinking about how all these terrific ideas are being totally ignored–along with our main request to have the permissions put back the way they were.

I know that Blizzard’s entire modus operandi is to pretend they understand the issue while not doing anything about it until we all give up and go away. Thus I’m determined to keep posting (because I’m contrary that way). But I can’t for the life of me understand why they’re doing this.

I really thought that a year into the problem, we’d have had it fixed–or at least they would have said, “Sorry folks, we like it better this way.” Instead, Ion said they’re working on a solution. So where the hell is it?? 8.2 was the “biggest” patch of the expansion, and they still can’t separate the permissions?

Hello? Is anybody home?

[Fumel-arathor (Fumel)]

Here’s some great, specific feedback about Guild Halls and their uses:

A guild hall would be amazing.

It is not owned by the GM, so it can’t be sold. It just comes with the guild. Guilds should be able to fly banners from every faction they’re exalted with, hang heads of raid bosses, display older legendaries (yes, even Thunderfury), etc. In other words, in game displays of guild achieves and it’s cosmetic stuff.

A pvp arena would be a blast.

The only NPC I really want is a vendor who sells booze. Beer is a key component for dwarf-led parties!

I have used my garrison. Officer meetings in the hall building in front of the fireplace are perfect. Also, egg hunts for Noblegarden are pretty fun in the garrison. Would much rather have a guild hall in SW/Org.

As much as I love these ideas, the priority is: FIX THE DANG PERMISSIONS, BLIZZ!

[Eskylidi-moon-guard (Eskylidi)]

HAPPY ANIVERSARY!
Whee!
waves the around
First lets hear it for the great CM who made this thread…Oh? He’s been fired?
Well that happens!
Fine, then lets hear it for his replacement!
Hmm? No one?
and the guilds are still crippled?

Thank you blizzard for proving to us what you really think of your customer base.

[Venjin-bronzebeard (Venjin)]

The last remnants of my RL friends in the guild have moved back to Pandora.

Your game, Blizzard, has gone stale to my playing group.
And I struggle to resist their exodus given the apathy displayed towards the people in this thread.

How has the changed affected me, you ask?

I no longer feel the desire to convince others to play your game or stay invested in its world.

I’ll be in Pandora too, for the time being, and keeping an eye on the game that once brought so many good memories.

In the meantime, fix the permissions.

[Fumel-arathor (Fumel)]

HAPPY ANIVERSARY!
Whee!
waves the around

Oh. God.

I didn’t realize it’s been a FREAKING YEAR since this mess went live. I have never felt such an urge to use language that would get me a forum ban as I feel right now. Maybe I’ll just use emojis.

Fix the permissions, Blizz.