07/20/2018 07:08 AMPosted by
Voragos
As mentioned in the last page, try this:
http://www.wowhead.com/news=285759/new-guild-ui-limitations-and-guildroster-command
It gives you the option for the old guild UI. It still baffles me as to why they would make these changes in the first place, frankly, but it's something at least.
The old guild roster UI does not allow editing ranks with individual permissions, the article is flawed.
I was just reading that you can bring back the old guild UI with a simple /guildroster command.
07/20/2018 07:37 AMPosted by
Enara
I was just reading that you can bring back the old guild UI with a simple /guildroster command.
You can indeed but you cannot assign permissions appropriately. Come on, Blizz, at least address this.
As a guild leader who believe editing a public note or viewing an officer's note should not require full blown officer privileges.
I too want to come into this thread and just for the record say this change is unwelcome, baffling, and upsetting.
Would truly like to know why this change was made.
Can't sort guild roster on "inactivity time", either.
But hey, it's OK to screw up guild management
for the sake of Community. Blizzard has been longing to turn WoW into a social media platform for years.
07/20/2018 07:54 AMPosted by
Lokki
As a guild leader who believe editing a public note or viewing an officer's note should not require full blown officer privileges.
I too want to come into this thread and just for the record say this change is unwelcome, baffling, and upsetting.
Would truly like to know why this change was made.
Still waiting for a fix on this.
Its nice that we can use /guildroster to get the old interface back, but we need to split the officer permissions. There is no good reason to lump them together.
This also counts as my daily bump. What is dead may never die.
I normally stick to my server forum and do things like host server Secret Santa, but I really feel the need to throw my name on the list of people really unhappy with the guild changes.
I really love my guild. I've worked very hard to recruit people that I think mesh well together and would actually enjoy their time with one another. We're small, drama free, and people spend their time giving back what the guild has given to them. But, there are issues with how guilds are currently set up and I genuinely feel that Blizzard needs to take another look at them. Giving officers near complete control over everything by checkbox default and not allowing the guild master to dictate what that control happens to be is asking for trouble from less scrupulous people who will take advantage of things. And this doesn't even take into consideration that I might want to give an extra permission or two to some of our longest standing veteran members who contribute a ton to the guild. To give them extra permission, I have to also tick the officer checkbox which, again, gives them about 90% control of the guild and its activities. It makes no sense that I can give someone the rank of officer but take away officer privileges and give a veteran rank those officer privileges without them actually being a designated officer. It's an either-or situation that shouldn't exist, especially when I have no say over what the privileges are. I have officers already. Not everyone needs to be one and they all certainly don't need as much access as they do.
Additionally, the guild and community UI is a complete mess. It's extremely cluttered, the guild roster seems to bug depending whether the person is (or isn't) online for BNet, and the guild chat pane always shows unread message even if I'm watching the conversation happen. I also don't understand the change to creating calendar events. My guild is a mix of social and raiding and those two worlds overlap heavily. We have events and giveaways running every week/month, and members of all ranks had the ability to try and host things for people to do. In order to keep an eye on things, I was the only one who could delete those events. Now, unless you're an officer/GM, you can't host anything.. unless, of course, you want to create a community for guild events. However, this is completely counter the the idea of a guild event. No one should have to join a guild based "community" just to create events for the guild. It makes even less sense given that you can't create events (unless you're an officer/GM) yet it's ok for those officers/GMs to make events and then anyone can edit them and the event creator wont know who did it. We also can't reliably sort by last online which makes a huge difference when you want to maintain an active guild roster. We give people 30 days of no attendance, move them to an AFK spot in the guild, and then give them another 30 days before removing. I'd say that's fairly generous. Instead, my guild admin officer and I have to manually click on each name individually to see how long ago they were on before deciding what to do. It's absurd.
I really appreciate the time that Blizzard puts into their work, and I don't mean to smear jelly all over someone's ideas or time spent on this. But frankly, the whole situation is a giant mess and I don't understand how these changes went through. It's really disappointing. The system we had before wasn't necessarily the prettiest to look at all the time but it was far more functional and relevant than this new system. I would really like Blizzard to revert some of these changes or make another pass at this, preferably before BFA. I won't up and abandon my guild over Blizzard's bad ideas, but it definitely makes being a guild master extremely frustrating, especially when my own members had limitations put on them that I didn't give them.
Still upset this wasn't addressed in the Q&A yesterday. I really hope the devs don't plan on trying to sweep this issue under the rug.
The silence from Blizzard is deafening.
I've started tweeting @warcraftdevs in addition to keeping this conversation alive. Fingers crossed somebody at Blizzard actually reads this, has run or managed a guild, and understands how frustrating of a change this is for Guild Masters.
If any devs or CMs actually read this, understand all our frustration, pain and outrage over this is because we love the guilds we've built, whether we formed them over a decade ago or last month, this change simply removes functionality that was actively used, very helpful, and needed.
We need MORE tools for Guilds. Not less. If your intent is to drive people away from guilds more and more until one day they aren't a thing, just let us know so we can at least go numb and stop caring about our teams / how they interact and play the game.
This new guild permissions system is a big yikes.. why fix something that's not broken?
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07/20/2018 09:18 AMPosted by
Osiris
I've started tweeting @warcraftdevs in addition to keeping this conversation alive. Fingers crossed somebody at Blizzard actually reads this, has run or managed a guild, and understands how frustrating of a change this is for Guild Masters.
If any devs or CMs actually read this, understand all our frustration, pain and outrage over this is because we love the guilds we've built, whether we formed them over a decade ago or last month, this change simply removes functionality that was actively used, very helpful, and needed.
We need MORE tools for Guilds. Not less. If your intent is to drive people away from guilds more and more until one day they aren't a thing, just let us know so we can at least go numb and stop caring about our teams / how they interact and play the game.
I too have made a twitter and plan to send some as well. Figured we'd get an answer at some point acknowledging it, but I guess not yet. :( We heavily made use of the old system in my guild - and this just undo all of what we built up with. My officer rank
doesn't even agree that they should have that much power.
I've complained for years that the guild system had too few capabilities and now they've removed more rather than adding more.
- It should be 1000 accounts not member-characters.
- There should be member ROLES as well as ranks (like SQL Server).
- Members can have only one RANK, but multiple ROLES.
- Players should have RANKS and ROLES.
a. RANKS should be title or position in guild.
b. ROLES should be groupings of permissions.
Now, guilds are simply... In control or not in control. It seems like they are turning Guilds into Communities and the only difference between Guild and Community is tag-line, guild bank, and tabard. Plus Communities can cross realms.
This concept is going to kill all but mythic-raiding guilds.
07/20/2018 07:37 AMPosted by
Enara
I was just reading that you can bring back the old guild UI with a simple /guildroster command.
Unfortunately, your source is incorrect. You can bring back the parts that display and can sort members by, say, time since online, but the guild control interface has been changed to eliminate control over specific permissions, just like in the new interface.
Edit: This is the longest thread I've ever seen without a single post defending what Blizzard did.
I suspect what happened was that they decided to reuse the guild code infrastructure for communities. Since communities could be simpler, they probably tore out a lot of code - and database tables, and the data in the database tables - that supported guilds. That was a stupid decision, but it's probably quite difficult to undo, so they're stuck.
Most guildmasters would be happy to get the detailed features back, even if they have to manually reset all the data, though, which would simplify the fix.
07/20/2018 09:59 AMPosted by
Silme
I suspect what happened was that they decided to reuse the guild code infrastructure for communities. Since communities could be simpler, they probably tore out a lot of code - and database tables, and the data in the database tables - that supported guilds. That was a stupid decision, but it's probably quite difficult to undo, so they're stuck.
If this was the case, which I figured as well, something should have been noted
somewhere of Blizzard's outlets of communication or patch note changes, even if it was an in game mail to those toons flagged with the GM rank, stating that there was permission changes and what those changes entailed. And any rank with former selections checked will be marked with "is officer" status.
But there was no communication for this, and it appears that feedback about it is very undervalued.
At this rate, I want to know what the difference between a Leader and an Officer in the community tab. There is literally nothing that states what they do different from one another except that I can set Officers to have a special chat.
It seemed the entire system, both Guild and Communities, are just entirely watered down and underwhelming.
07/20/2018 07:54 AMPosted by
Lokki
As a guild leader who believe editing a public note or viewing an officer's note should not require full blown officer privileges.
I too want to come into this thread and just for the record say this change is unwelcome, baffling, and upsetting.
Would truly like to know why this change was made.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts. I like letting people edit the public notes because most of the time they are super funny, but now the rank was to be an officer rank :(
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I can only assume that the entire UI was rebuilt from the ground up and they were trying to get it out in time for launch which is why it's missing some options. I'm sure if we just list the things it's missing they'll be re-added eventually or we'll get a nice blue post as to why they were removed.
I hope they do get re-added back because having less control over the guild and who can do what seems counter-productive.
With the issues they've had, I would assume that everything will be restored as they get to it. Guilds are to have the exact same additions to the feature set as Communities as far as they've stated. There had not been any mention of feature removal.
We can help bump it up, however. I hope everyone concerned has placed a polite, specific bug report, and exhorted their guild members to do the same over issues they can experience.
If they were going to fix it wouldn't they have responded to us?
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07/20/2018 05:44 AMPosted by
Tarayn
I'm never one to run to the forums and criticize, but this change is beyond comprehension.
At work, if one of our software vendors changed it so permissions were basically an all or nothing toggle, I would throw away their software and purchase a new product as fast as I can. You simply just don't do security this way. It makes no sense. A lot of people are going to just check "Is Officer" now for nearly everyone because the alternative is too tedious to their current practices.
Blizz please switch this back to save us from this incomprehensible decision.
Neither am I. I've never had to visit the forums over a change, whether I disagreed with it or not. This creates so many headaches though, and there's NO stated reason. Where are you devs? Why won't you answer us?
...
With the issues they've had, I would assume that everything will be restored as they get to it. Guilds are to have the exact same additions to the feature set as Communities as far as they've stated. There had not been any mention of feature removal.
We can help bump it up, however. I hope everyone concerned has placed a polite, specific bug report, and exhorted their guild members to do the same over issues they can experience.
If they were going to fix it wouldn't they have responded to us?
Thats not how blizzard works. The rarely, if ever, make mention of acknowledging play concerns until the moment they impliment the fix, if they implement the fix. Community forums being the most recent example.