Sure you dont.
You canât gatekeep yourself, thatâs outside of the definition and impossible.
You canât gatekeep yourself, thatâs outside of the definition and impossible.
Now I know youâve never ran a large guild or did raid leading of any sort.
They do because you clearly donât understand what gatekeeping is. But thatâs okay, Websterâs online has a good definition for you.
See, what youâre doing right now. By ad hominid attacks, attacking me personally (someone you know little to nothing about), and attacking my character is a form of gatekeeping. Because youâre insinuating that I donât belong in this conversation and trying to frustrate me into leaving the forum, even if itâs for a short time.
Do you see how irrational and toxic this is? Invite people in, even those that you donât deem worthy of your sweat lord lair. We might surprise you.
ever think the difficulty will ramp up slowly as we progress though SoD. BFD was pretty easy, Gnomer will be slightly harder, then level 50 raid will be slightly harder between level 40 raid and MC difficulty.
Thus a person who has been playing SoD since launch will have time to improve their abilities, hone their skills and learn the quirks of their teammates which leads to successful high end raiding.
I think the difficulty of bfd is fine, I think weâve seen through classics life cycle the population dwindles every time a tough raid comes out, naxx in p6, SSC/Tk, ulduar HMs, the entirety of SoM. I donât think the playerbase, especially those that are playing another vanilla season, want a hard raiding experience outside of the top players.
Bfd was slightly difficult week 1, and a cake walk ever since, so Iâm sure they could make gnomer slightly harder and continue with that trend but I donât think they should go and make every fight have a HM and prog for casual guilds take months. I think most casual players enjoy knocking out a few weeks of prog and then being able to reap the loot rewards for a few months.
Gating the casual playerbase with unnecessary difficulty only leads to a loss of subs and a less lively game overall.
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Anyone who is gatekeeping BFD isnât worth the breath it takes to tell them to go away. If you have trouble finding groups, make your own. It takes a little time and effort but you get to make your own community with your own rules.
That said, Iâm not sure how this raid is hard. Iâve been in full pugs with the absolute worst players Iâve ever seen and we still got through it.
A lot of people are missing the point. Itâs not whether or not the raid is too hard.
Itâs that the âesportsificationâ of PVE ruins the rest of the game.
Maybe they should add a lfr, normal, heroic, and mythic difficulty⌠I donât understand why people donât want any challenge out of this game anymore. Itâs even trickling down to classic at this point.
Because BRD, LBRS, and UBRS are better instanced PVE content than any modern garbage that focuses on being hard.
Counterpoint, making them easier so people who are trying to pug them very poorly can feel like any pug is a 100% clear makes it even more of a necessity if I want a smooth run that I would now have to start gatekeeping people just so I donât need to kick a mage pulling 40 dps because thatâs the people struggling with the raids.
By complaining for nerfs because itâs not 100% faceroll you give off the illusion that itâs difficult and thus push them into the arms of GDKPers because Gandalf the Gray Parse told them the raid is impossible and unfairly tuned because the guy didnât want to spend 50 silver and thinks thatâs âanti-Vanilla.â
Because a tank being good at the game and finding an equally good healer where they can just have on-demand dungeoning for all their BiS needs and that tank can get a much needed confidence boost is a bad thing?
My like third run tanking Deadmines on a feral led to me getting into a set raid group for season just because the healer appreciated I knew how to watch his mana bar, but also not make the dungeon take two hours because of basic thinking like âOh, we have mostly melee dps, I can pull this nearly dead pack into the next one to keep momentum going because healer is half mana bar.â
Not a problem at all.
This is actually incorrect. Making the endgame satisfying is not the same as designing only on endgame. WoWâs problem is that they solely focus on raiding because they give the game limited resources. Except itâs also not as easy as âjust donât make a raid thenâ because weâve already seen steep population drop-offs in just a month. My argument would be more to making raids aspirational because thatâs what kept people playing throughout TBC. Some guild somewhere no matter how late in the expansion it was had its members squealing and going to bed happy because they finally downed Magtheridon. It didnât matter that guilds were in Sunwell and curbstomped him a year ago, they were happy they got it. They also had many nights where they went to sleep defeated because he still stood proud weeks before. Except itâs that climbing of the hill that makes getting to the top what it is.
If anything, Blizzard needs to find a way to healthily introduce aspirational rewards that take eons to accomplish for the average player but feel fulfilling, but also dial down the player element where they obsess about where they place in terms of others. People wouldnât care about 4/7 in a BFD lockout if it wasnât so braindead to go 7/7.
When you make the content easier, failure becomes even more inexcusable and encourages toxicity. I didnât care back in Wrath for my ICC pugs how good or bad players were because most of it was free anyway, just that they werenât rocking pvp gear because GearScore said it was better than tier 9 because bigger number, and if they screwed something up actually made an effort to understand. I.E someone dies to frost bomb on Sindragosa not knowing the mechanic, not angry. Next pull after itâs explained if they still sit in the open, now itâs an issue. If they get behold the block the second time theyâre just as good as the rest of us. Here I actually do feel a little inclined to care just because you can learn how to do acceptable damage numbers with a couple words in YouTubeâs search bar and a video catered to the most idiotic of people in under 10 minutes.
I wiped to Kaelâthas in tier 5 for like two damn months, but it was a different time back then. You didnât really have raid guides the day of kill, you were trying to decipher it based on kill videos and your guildâs personal way of doing things and kind of adlibbing it as you went along. Never once was I thinking âHoly hell this guild is garbage.â ⌠I lose my mind when someone depth charges us off Aquanis platform just because I know most players have giant text saying âDEPTH CHARGE ON YOUâ and their addon even says something about them having it. Thatâs just inexcusable and almost offensive levels of terrible that almost feels like theyâre giving you the middle finger by doing it intentionally.
making them easier so people who are trying to pug them very poorly can feel like any pug is a 100% clear makes
Iâm not calling for nerfs. Iâm calling for an entirely different design approach to raids. An old school design approach.
Because a tank being good at the game
For the third time. Iâm saying the CLASS needs to get better. Tanks need tools to mitigate all that damage. Healers need instant cast heals. Ect, ect.
This is actually incorrect. Making the endgame satisfying is not the same as designing only on endgame.
Focusing on how the carrot tastes rather than how it looks/serves as a motivation tool fundamentally misunderstands the point of a carrot on a stick.
Easy raids are pointless and boring. If people cant handle challenges then they arenât built for not just the game but in real life. I think gamers should always have the option of easy and hard raids. BFD is a clown show. Tired of all these bad or lazy players ruining the game because their brain canât process simple challenges.
Raids and dungeons were way more fun when they werenât designed to be hard.
Yaâll act like you just get the same raid but easier. But you get the developer time invested elsewhere.
Every raid should have:
- Multiple paths.
- Multiple entrances.
- Different ways of doing the encounter.
- A cool entrance for each boss.
- Things that make a class stand out/make each run feel different depending on classes brought.
- Hidden secrets activated by quests.
You donât need to do this for 2 boss raids like Gruuls lair, but you get the idea.
Players are gatekeeping their raids, but they cannot gatekeep BFD. Everyone is able to form a PUG, or even their own guild, should they choose.
Your claim is akin to me saying that you canât enter my house, and you accusing me of gatekeeping affordable housing.
While I think itâs goofy that some groups are wanting full WBâs, parses, gear score, consumes, and all that - itâs their prerogative. You can make your own PUG. Me and a guildie formed a BFD PUG without any requirements and it went smoothly. There were plenty of people ready to go. The hardest part was finding a healer and that only took about 15 minutes.
You are not under the power of anyone who is demanding a 300 gearscore and 7/7 logs. They can do their thing, and you can do yours just as easily.
You are totally right in everything you said.
The issue is that, as time has gone on with the first month of SoD, there is a paradigm developing. And more and more pug groups are requesting the above and beyond requirements to join their runs.
Does that mean itâs happening all the time? Nope. However there is a reason for it, there are A LOT of under geared and bad players out there.
Iâve noticed a paradigm shift away form GS the last couple of lockouts, people arenât using it. Theyâre requesting someone come to them to be inspected now. Itâs WAAAAAAAY to easy to cheat up to a 300 GS, so thatâs the new method there.
But yea, did a quick minimal requirement pug this afternoon, won the roll on the caster neck finally. Lots of mail gear again, because my luck sucks. Still havenât seen an epic.
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I totally agree that people are being goofy with all these reqs, but I donât see how to really change it. Itâs how they want to play the game.
I also donât think making the raids easier will change this behavior. If itâs âend gameâ people are going to get too sweaty with it. If regular Deadmines was considered end game for a phase, a certain segment of the population would be demanding specific comps, full consumes, and proof that you already had your cruel barb before you could join them. It is what it is. I just stay away from anyone acting too weird like that lol
So two things.
- Behavior by the top echelon in a social structure will inevitably trickle down. (Ideal paradigm structures are usually perpetrated by the best of the best or perceived best of the best.) This is part of community management with on line gaming and Blizzard is historically really really really really disastrously bad at it. Like complete incompetence levels of bad at it. Because you can effect and guide it, especially when you see âbad behaviorsâ and toxic paradigms develop.
- Easier or more forgiving content will definitely lessen it, as it will lower the fear level of people âlosingâ a lockout.
Iâm still on the fence about the lockouts being part of the problem. I understand why theyâre there, but getting into a fail 5/7 pug and losing a lockout on the last two bosses is a BIG factor right now. People are scared of having a wasted lockout. AND it also doesnât help that the general view point is that everyone should be clearing the place. So you feel angry and a lot of very negative emotions when you get into that 5/7 group. Especially when there is a HUGE difference between pre-BIS and the BIS in BFD at the moment. I mean massive power difference.
Then I think about the reasoning is because the phase is going to be over soon, and people donât want to be left behind.
Then I realize that there is NOTHING for casters outside of BFD and the next raid since all the existing questing and dungeon caster loot is garbage, compared to BFD.
There are a lot of issues revolving how the dev team is going things right now that need to get sorted in short order, because how powerful and over the top the loot is in BFD is one of the contributing factors too.
wtf? None of this is my problem, its Blizzard problem, if that indie company cant handle that, I just have other games to play, np.
Your never going to convince the wowhead and icyvein dwellers that a 25 min clear is ok when you can do it in 20 min.
Classic is meant to be played with friends/ a guild. I honestly hope they do lil to nothing to aid players who refuse to do so and just want to pug. Create your own groups to bypass gate keeping. Quit expecting others who make there own groups carry you threw content. If i make my own group im inviting whoever and watever spec i want, you cant force me to do other wise.
Iâm trying to understand what youâre getting at, Iâm looking at your reply to my reply and a little confused, Iâm saying BFD is more an introduction of whatâs going to come, I even say I naturally assume raids will get harder.
But in saying that even playing with friends/guilds it feels bad knowing your class/spec is more a nuisance then an addition to the raid. No one should feel like they are being carried, Iâm saying classes should be more on equal footing so everyone does their part.
Heck if you make your own group and stack all Warriors kudos to you, Iâm just not sure what that has to do with the reply?.
All of those dungeons, while fun back in vanilla, were badly designed dungeons designed to take time to get through, not skill. While u may or may not like retail theyâve moved away from making content difficult by requiring x time to do said raid/dungeon and instead put actual challenges into the game.