I think we have to look at the bigger picture and that is outside of the universe.
Warcraft is always in my opinion, reflected the real world. It has pop-culture references, memes, and the sentiments of current society.
Think of what happened to Alexstraza and her eggs. Garrosh being censored. Sylvanas, given three expansions worth of content, demonizing her. And then she gets redeemed.
And the way Khadgar, Baine, Ysera, Thrall and everyone, but Tyrande, was talking made it seem as if the entire group wanted to retire.
Then we get these nostalgic mini quests of exhaustion and regret about past events. About people tired of the endless conflicts.
Shadowlands and BFA really went to town on both faction conflict and just outright death and destruction and despair.
There are so many loose ends, but this expansion is the antithesis of all that was Shadowlands. And perhaps it is like a soap opera never really tying up all the what ifs or what happened to that personâŚ
The TLDR. The writer himself said that this was now closing of chapter 1 and the start of chapter 2. As in all the past problems and conflicts need to be shelved to make way for new direction.
That means introducing characters and lore that paint a different picture. And because itâs fantasy and prone to ret cons, they have the liberty to just completely go sideways with the story.
The issue here lies in the complete lack of anything political in the game, (Not to drag in irl stuff). Like in FFXIV after an expansion where a nation is liberated there is an entire quest dedicated to looking for ways to reintegrate trade from that nation into the union the player belongs to.
Something that could have been completely disregarded, but still it does help to build both the world and immersion to the game.
For me i think the smartest thing blizzard could do regarding the overarching story is to hire someone educated in history (and probably writing). Since these are people who should know how to connect dots over a longer period. Like with Game of Thrones, GRR Martin has a minor in history and it shows.
That was PR BS to try and convince the players the Jailer stuff was always planned. It didnât work and judging by how everything post-BfA has turned out(i.e. unsalvageable), this new direction is the wrong one. At best, DF is an overcorrection for Shadowlandsâ nonsense. Itâs not been particularly good on its own.
Yeah. Even as far back as to the burning of teldrassil. The malicious writer was fired far enough back that they could have winged improvements into the story (Like making Alliance hit first for once). But they did not.
100% this. Legion felt like a true end to the âfirst chapterâ since the Legion were the main antagonists of the series since they were introduced in WC2.
My personal issue with the Jailer is, he came off as a Lich King ripoff. That blizz clearly wanted to be bigger and badder than the actual Lich King himself. And as a villian, he was pretty bland and boring, not once did I feel intimidated by him, just lots of yawning whenever he monologued at us
A post in a different thread got me thinking about the role Metzen has played in Warcraft, but it seemed more appropriate for this thread :
For a while, I was sick of all this Metzen worship. Ok, we get it. He was a big part of the game. Thrall is a big part of the story and lore. But even George Washington had the wisdom to avoid staying around too long at a role. WoW needs to move on. There are other tales to be told on the setting, besides his pet projects.
Let new talent have a crack.
But as time went on⌠he seems to have left the company before the worst of it and come back just as things were turning around.
His is one of the few names associated with WoW that isnât said with derision. Some are out right vermin, like the Cosby Crew. I guess he knew when to take a break and come back.
I think some of the hero worship is over blown, and the whole ârock starâ culture the Cosby Crew fueled itself on was fed by such sycophantic fandom⌠but Metzen has seemed to at least remain unsullied with the mess.
I am glad he has returned, since so few are able to do right by this franchise.
Only two races in this game have real world building that go lenghts to explore their culture. And that is humans and elves. Everyone else gets nothing.
Developers who are too cowardly to get political shouldnât be writing stories. Itâs one thing to avoid it naturally, but politics is an integral part of culture and worldbuilding.
It really adds to the general issue with âcorporateâ writing these days. No one is allowed to stand for anything or express something they truly feel passionate about. The soul gets lost. Hell, we saw a Blizz worker get fired for making fun of rich people, for Khaineâs sake.
Cowardice. Incompetence. Weakness. I would use the word that starts with C and ends with K to describe Blizzardâs corporate management, but thats what got me banned last time.
Half the Orc clans(mostly the Draenor ones) are extinct. Zandalari got worfed on their own home turf and pretty much any former larger tribe of trolls got genocided multiple times. None of them are in a good shape similar to humans and elves.
Who were the last 5 chieftains and kings of every major troll tribe? Where are the troll ruins all over Azeroth dotted like the night elf ones? What is their religion? How big is the population of every major city? Where is their food coming from? How is their hierarchy? What is the organization of their military? What is their religion?
Letâs see if you can answer all of these questions. Good luck.
Name the past five kaledorei leaders? Trolls have tons of different tribes with their own distinct identities which are some of the coolest parts about them. I dont really care nor think anyone cares about going into detail about every tribes leaders since forever.
You mean the troll ruins in stranglethorn, dun morogh, arathi highlands, hinterlands, eastern plaguelands, the ghostlands, hillsbrad foothills, durotar, tanaris, darkshore, northrend, pandaria, and the entire continent of zandalar?
I would suggest looking up âthe loaâ there are tons of them youll find each of the tribes have distinct ones they worship. Far more different dieties than the elves.
I dont really know nor do i care because population sizes never ever matter in wow. I assume they get their food from the various jungles they live in. Frostmane trolls keep boars and shimmerweed.
They had a king. I killed him now i assume talanji runs things as far as zandalari are concerned. The various other tribeâs leaders like the sandscalp often become dungeon bosses.
You asked what is their religion twice.
I for one actually like the trolls in wow. Theres tons to their lore and world building compared to lots of the other races. Perhaps delving into in game archeology could give you some more interesting insights to troll worldbuilding.
Night elves are immortal. So there is no point in changing leadership too often.
Frostmane tribe literally lives in caves because the dwarfs drove them out.
Assumptions without a source.
It matters. in the RPG books and the general book for D&D they give you population size of each important city usually.
alliance bias.
A spineless coward who gave in to what the Horde council wanted from her.
Which brings us to the original argument. Trolls and Orcs donât get to be build up because they get killed too fast meaning Blizzard doesnât respect any Horde race by default.
It shouldnât be the job of RPers to fill in the gaps in the story that Blizzard refuses to fill in with canon material. Right now I stand correct since we pretty much know everything about Kaldorei, Kul Tiras and Stormwind culture in every way possible.
Youâre both right. Why can we never meet in the middle on this stuff, admit both factions get screwed over in uniquely terrible ways, and focus on giving Blizzard the feedback they deserve?
No, bud. Just, no. Troll worldbuilding mostly consists of them being cannon fodder for the Alliance and sometimes the Horde. You can not look at their history since WoW started and tell me they havenât gotten screwed nearly every time they take the spotlight.
Thereâs a difference between ATTENTION (as in, Blizzard paying ATTENTION to trolls) and good worldbuilding. You can say that about humans as well. Youâre always in the spotlight (at the expense of other Alliance races), but what good has it done you?
The original statement was that no other race got any worldbuilding. This is false. You liking it or not is completely subjective. But to sit back and act like none of the other races have got ANYTHING is silly.
I quite like wow trolls. I think they have some really fun flavor and have always loved their aesthetic. This woe is me and acting like theyre devoid of lore because theyve shown up as baddies a bunch is just silly.
And yes i truely agree with your last point. Humans in wow havent got anything world building wise since forever. Its been a lot of anduin and it sucks.
And Iâm saying thereâs a middle ground between what you and Erevien are saying.
Agreed. And a troll player might say that trolls get a lot of attention, but it almost always ends with them getting crushed by the Alliance, the Horde, or even the Legion when they killed Volâjin.
If the worldbuilding is bad and almost always makes the players involved feel bad, then Iâd call that unsuccessful. At least, if your goal is to create an enjoyable game with races you can imprint upon and relate to. This is (ostensibly) a role-playing game.
now i assume talanji runs things as far as zandalari are concerned. The various other tribeâs leaders like the sandscalp often become dungeon bosses.