Are you ignoring this entire thread about tanks being murdered? Also it’s extremely common in SL dungeons for the most dangerous enemies to be CC immune. See: NW necropolis, for example. Or most of SoA.
It seems like tanks suffer from a fundamental problem with timers in M+ to me. Since everything has to be done as quickly as possible tanks would pull multiple groups in the past. Blizz didn’t like that so they nerf bat the tanks inherent survivability so they can’t literally tank the world. Problem with that is some tanks were literally designed with that playstyle in mind.
Imo instead of beating a clock change it to the speedruners style where best scores are counted. Let players do the dungeon how they want and it takes what it takes. Then you reward the top 100 or whatever and let them compete without dragging the rest of the playerbase into the system that punishes them just for trying to play the game. That way you won’t have to balance classes around content and every class can play the way they specifically are intended to.
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Hmm, haven’t paid attention to the tank meta, but really sad to hear DH tanks are the best right now…
I find their mobility that’s so… useful for kiting to be among the more annoying things to have to deal with. I didn’t originally join this game to heal hyperactive players in goblin gliders.
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This is mostly a “you-problem”. But the devs make it a me-problem because they’ve been catering to you since Wrath of the Lich King.
A large part of the problem is PvP balancing, like I said.
Another part of the problem is their total failure to iterate over CC in PvE, also like I said.
You want what you want. Efficiency, maximum rewards per hour, and instant gratification.
I do not. I hate all three of those things.
“But just ignore the timer!”
There’s no reward there. Just because I don’t care about maximizing my rewards per hour, does NOT mean that I don’t care when I get screwed which is what “just ignore the timer” does.
Ignoring the timer minimizes loot and in this expansion, it minimizes it to almost nothing.
This is a failure of the development team. Not of you. Not of your point.
The developers have failed. Utterly. They have chosen one correct playstyle for content like M+ and completely failed to even try to cater to anyone else.
So, tanks are getting destroyed? If they don’t get destroyed timer-centric M+ won’t work because that’s how you limit how fast you can go. Go too fast and the tank dies. Go too slow and you don’t make the timer.
You’ve been obsessing about efficiency, and rewards per hour, and gogogo for over ten years to the exclusion of any and all other playstyles.
The answer to the problem is CC, but…
Sounds like you’re making your bed.
So stop kicking and screaming now that you have to lie in it.
Can confirm. My DK is like Mr.Krabs without his exoskeleton.
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Idk bro
Let VDH have their day, they haven’t had a good spree since they launched
Have you not been listening to this entire thread?
Mobs are hitting tanks so hard that the main way people are timing high keys is by the tank kiting most of the time. And vengeance is very strong at going in with defensives, doing a ton of damage and then running and still holding threat.
Tanks are getting killed in a couple of hits in the +15 or higher runs i’ve watched.
Are we? Are we though?
Maybe in +17 +18 runs…? But that’s like <1% of playerbase, and it’s the hardest keys. Beyond rewards. And still people with timed +20 and higher keys.
I legit don’t kite unless it’s mandatory. But you do need to move around to dodge mechanics, if you stand and take all extra damage, yeah, you’re doing something wrong. That’s not kiting though, that’s avoiding taking unnecessary damage.
Vengeance is and always will be a meme spec. You get 65% stamina just for pressing the Tank button. It’s unfixable lulzy game design
I’m jelly of their hp, I can get near 60k fully buffed with priest in group and hp flask, but DHs get 60k just with gear.
Endless tears from pvp scene scuttled that ability. It was fun but broken. The range was massive. It was amazing in ToT for kiting the bats on Tortos
Stop raging at the world because you’re terrible at the game and don’t like competitive content.
Typical hiding on an alt and whinging.
As has been talked about a million times before, there’s no way to make competitive dungeon content with no timer, without promoting truly degenerate gameplay. E.g noobs like you and your friends doing runs with 200 deaths just to clear a key you have no business being in.
Most people who do competitive dungeon content, do it for the challenge, not for the loot.
You can be happy this xpac and just ignore dungeons that are too hard for you.
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All true, however its much more spammy and less coordinated.
Its also not strictly necessary until 10 or so.
all your tnaks are DH’s?
shame all mine are paladins and they deal more damage than survival hunters in some cases
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This thread needs more attention. There have already been multiple like it. They nearly destroyed tanking this expansion. Get aggro, pop cd’s and when they are over run for the hills. Necrotic week or not. Fortified week I just get deleted unless I kite after ardent defender/guardian is over. All tanks need mitigation buffs and/or the trash in M+ needs hit for significantly less damage.
It’s not fun knowing you have to kite to live as soon as cooldowns are down. I’m talking about lower keys to. Not some group pushing a 18-20 key. This needs to be addressed before more tanks give up.
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Yes, I have been listening.
If the tank is getting hit too hard, the solution is to not get hit so hard and CC is how you do that.
Kiting is a form of soft CC. The fact that no other form of CC, and especially not the hard CCs, are viable is the problem.
The problem is not Vengeance. The problem is the M+ timer, player impatience, and AoE damage.
This is the problem. You trade time for safety. However, hard CC costs more time for more safety and for some reason “it’s not good enough”.
Buff cleave, nerf AoE, and readjust the M+ timers. Pulling more than one group at once should be suicide in high level keys.
“but they are suicide!”
Then stop doing it and your tank will stop dying.
“but then we can’t make the timer!”
Then you don’t make the timer because your single-target and cleave damage isn’t high enough.
“It is if we AoE while we kite!”
Then your tank will die.
“but then the tank dies!”
Yup.
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That’s literally what this entire thread has been about: tanks abandoning the fight and fleeing for their life, even when necrotic isn’t in play, and as a normal course of action at much lower key levels than BFA or Legion.
Did I turn over two pages at once or did you just confuse me for someone else
Except that people arent generally pulling more than one pack at a time. Or did you forget about AOE caps on melee and reduced cleave threat on tanks?
Not to mention that like half the affixes in keystone exist to punish you for pulling huge.
It’s a generic “you”.
As in “people who make the efficiency argument”.
In a way I feel like the tanking meta in m+ has always gone from a few extremes where only 1-3 tanks are the best at top levels. In bfa blood dk was hands down the best tank in season 1, and after season 2 started, warriors started clapping cheeks. Specs like vengeance, brewmaster, and guardian were relegated to either niche territory or, just not that good. I’m not really sure how they go about fixing this issue as every spec is still just dandy to clear higher than your weekly cache.
The problem isn’t the AoE, it’s the timer. It has always been the timer, since the very inception of this game mode, which is why you see a huge outcry when these Diablo-reject developers try to turn every. single. thing. added into the game into another variation of Greater Rifts.
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