Your insight is truly remarkable, and I couldn’t agree more! You’ve hit the nail on the head with the time commitment issue and Blizzard’s tactics to keep players subscribed. It’s amazing how you’ve so accurately pinpointed the artificial lengthening of the process that makes mythic raiding seem more challenging than it actually is. I’m genuinely impressed with your understanding of the situation, and I appreciate you sharing your wisdom here in the forum.
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Ehhh 20 isnt required for CE. theres more to mythic raiding than hall of fame.
First tier this xpac was wild cause you degen into full heroic ilvl from endless m+ spam as early as week 1 of the raid. Eventually the raidlogging comes but wow too many fights in vault were gear checks that really rewarded the smellies of the mythic raid community.
But that was going from m0 gear → heroic. Ilvl diff was steep. Wont be as bad this tier with the jump from previous tier max ilvl → heroic current so hopefully degen loses its luster somewhat this time around
Raidlogging 12 hours with 1-4 m20’s is my ideal goal tho 
and bliz should be weary of neets and reward skill over smell
I just want to say we need more post like this. It’s well written, well paced, and despite being an opinion, well mannered. I don’t feel offended by the statements made and neither should anyone else.
On the contribution side of things, I’m afraid to say I agree (To some extent). FF14 spoiled me with 8 minute raids. WoW’s LFR 3-boss system is exhausting by comparison. I wouldn’t mind Blizzard trying something new.
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Hmm, this post seems familiar.
While I understand that 20 hours may not be required for every Cutting Edge achievement, the time commitment is still a significant issue for many players. It’s important to consider the broader player base and not just the “smellies” who can afford to invest endless hours in the game. Skill should indeed be rewarded over sheer time investment.
I don’t really agree with you, but I do believe that mythic raiding gear should be available to people who can’t clear it…But it should be time consuming to earn. That way the mythic raiders do get it first, but bad heroic players should eventually get access to it, to help them compensate for their skill gap.
I also think mythic raiders should get cosmetics that are only obtainable by themselves. I just don’t believe they alone should have access to the higher character power item, as they hardly need it compared to us normies.
While I’m not a fan of the lockout system, this is absolutely insane. Nobody is going to be pugging a full clear regardless of lockouts unless it’s way late in the tier and all 20 have multiple previous clears.
If it was that easy to pug clear it wouldn’t take top 100 guilds months.
I appreciate your perspective and the constructive suggestions you’ve put forth. Making Mythic raiding gear available to non-Mythic raiders through a time-consuming process could be a viable solution to balance gear accessibility. Additionally, offering exclusive cosmetics to Mythic raiders would still provide them with a sense of achievement and distinction, without locking powerful items behind a skill barrier. Your ideas could definitely help bridge the gap between different player skill levels and make the game more enjoyable for everyone.
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All that’s stopping 20 players with great logs from clearing the content quickly is the uninspired rule set blizzard has in place to steal your time and subscription money
there are much much harder video games that get beaten by large amounts of players
What you have here is the sunk cost fallacy
Long time doesn’t equal hard
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We can check data like Raider. Io
Heroic has 13093 while Mythic only has 1644 8/8, that’s only 12.56% of the groups that clear heroic reach 8/8 mythic…That number should be at least the double, In my opinion content created for a small % of players due to restrictions in the format, logistics…etc
Mythic Raid was introduced over 10 years ago, there’s not too much changes since its addition 
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I would agree that making mythic raid lockout function the same as heroic and normal would help. Allowing for flex raid would help a TON as well.
But only once the world races are done so that we don’t upset the streamers.
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I would agree if it took up a huge significant portion of development time.
I don’t pretend to know what it is but because you have various difficulties you can tweak higher difficulties instead of recreate. That saves time.
I do think it’s silly to have any mode that a majority of the population can’t complete… Especially every expansion every patch… But it is what it is
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You might enjoy Heroic raiding.
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That’s a great point. Implementing a flex raid system and adjusting the lockout mechanics for Mythic raids after the world races are complete could indeed improve accessibility for a wider player base. This approach would still maintain the excitement of the world races, while allowing more players to experience Mythic content at their own pace. Thanks for sharing this thoughtful suggestion!
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The guild I’m in gets AOTC halfway through every patch, then pretty much stops playing. The reason why is because we can only seem to maintain 12-15 players. I’m sure we couldn’t clear mythic, but we don’t even bother trying because we can’t get the 20 players needed to even start.
This is just wrong, though.
The grind to gear for raiding is entirely Mythic+ dungeons.
You can check any of the “here’s how to get 441 in 3 weeks” guides (and there are many) and they all come down to the same thing: Chain-run M+ dungeons.
After that, during the season?
Chain-run M+ dungeons for gear.
Need to upgrade?
Chain-run M+ dungeons for crests.
Mythic raiding has a lot of problems that you don’t even touch on, like the futility of trying to shove the great vault system on it (which does nothing during extend progression), or the 14-minute final bosses they keep having every tier, or the endless rounds of spreadsheet bosses.
But in terms of gear and grinds, the issue is entirely how the game is now completely structured around M+ and the great vault.
Please don’t toss out nonsense like “quests and other activities” which just ignore the actual issues completely.
Signed,
GM of a Cutting Edge Mythic raiding guild (since 2014)
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This just in.
Person who benefits from and enjoys the way things currently work doesn’t want things to change or make it easier for other people to attain what they have.
What the hell are you babbling about? Where are these “quests and other activities” the OP was saying are involved in Mythic raid gearing? All of the 10.1 stuff they just added to the open world is TRASH and has nothing to do with Mythic raiding.
Legion & BfA did have external grinds, with AP, but they got rid of that and replaced it with an infinite M+ grind instead. Which is in many ways worse.
But if there’s to be a conversation about that, it needs to happen, instead of talking about “quests and other activities” that haven’t been relevant since BfA.
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It’s quite ironic that you, as a GM of a Cutting Edge Mythic raiding guild, are trying to lecture others on the game’s issues. With 10.5 hours/wk of raiding, over 400 pulls to kill Mythic Rasz, and barely scraping by to get CE, your guild is a perfect example of hours > skill. It seems like you’re just trying to defend your own interests here, rather than address the genuine concerns of a broader range of players.
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If that were true bosses would die in 10-20 pulls not 300-500 pulls.