The m+ problem isn't actually that hard to fix

[Akston-area-52]

I think it’s less in doing the trinity correctly and more that people want an easy and OP role

[Oneonem-area-52]

@Akston-area-52

When healers are OP they complain about the expectation of dpsing.

I feel like the healers complaining about dps is a very small problem for a very small minority compared to the bloodpressure meds healing we have now

I healed in SL S4 and it was very relaxed and I enjoyed it

Then healing in DF S1 I literally felt limited by my actual reaction time on like 1/3rd of deaths

[Amyrii-echo-isles]

@Myzrym-area-52

Everything is fine to +10

I disagree that everything is fine. Haven’t healed or tanked this season for months. It’s not fun

[Myzrym-area-52]

@Amyrii-echo-isles

Haven’t healed or tanked this season for months.

My main is discipline. KSH, 634 ilvl.

It’s not a great season imo. One of the worst in fact. But it’s still manageable.

[Mkali-frostwolf]

@Jhaella-maladath

M+ is mostly fine below 11. Everything is viable up to that point, and that’s the only content that matters. There are changes that could be made, definitely, but the season is in a better place than it was.

This aligns with Blizzard’s logic. They look at the damage/healing numbers needed for 10 and lower keys in expected gear and every comp is mathematically viable, so they’re hesitant to make true changes because theoretically, everyone should be able to get groups without too much waiting.

The problem though is the community and the trickle-down effect from the top-end meta. You don’t NEED a prot pally or a brewmaster to tank a +10, but the community sees that’s what most often clears a +20, so they think that’s what they need to aim for too.

I’m not totally sure how you fix that.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Eilai-stormrage

BM isn’t bad

Explain how they are half of the representation of the 2nd to worst if they are not bad.

This applies to all key levels and almost half for +12 and up.

[Floweret-stormreaver]

@Sôsari-dalaran

Explain how they are half of the representation of the 2nd to worst of they are not bad?

Can you reword this question? It’s making my brain melt.

Assuming it is:

“Why are they poorly represented?”

It’s because monk is an unpopular class.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

Made it a statement lol

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Amyrii-echo-isles

I enjoyed the read. Blizz also said they were going to nerf tanks and then adjust the numbers so healers aren’t having to deal with so much burst and yet it’s more bursty than ever.

Many times over the years Blizzard has nerfed players and said “we’ll adjust the monsters to the new paradigm” yet the encounter designer never seems to get the memo.

[Eilai-stormrage]

@Oneonem-area-52

Not really wrong though, BM can get carried through high keys with hps where other tanks just die. It’s a weird concept

For example BDK is god tier op for most keys in the game, but then turn into unplayable trash when they get 1 shot

BM is kinda just meh throughout the entire keyrange, passing blood eventually at the high end

Exactly. As always, meta changes with gear and content difficulty

[Sôsari-dalaran]

It’s more than just being an unpopular class. The question is why. WW had a meta moment in SL I think.

I don’t think it’s the class. If tuning and balancing was good, people would play it.

[Fauxstrasza-stormrage]

Delete aug will allow one more dps to fit within a 3 dps spot. But tanks and healers? nah, won’t affect that really.

@Eilai-stormrage

Once tanks don’t die that easily or ALL healers are able to keep the group alife the problem is instantly solved, you won’t need to build comps around the tank only to help him live through the dungeon.

No, that makes tanking and healing trivial so why have it?

And at the apex, someone will likely still rise to the top.

If you made tanks and healers literally interchangeable, you’ve more or less made the game trivial for them. (So you can pick any, and do not care.)

Tanks exist because you NEED a tank to do stuff. (And if anyone can do it, might as well remove tanks, and balance for 4 dps.)

Healers are the same principle. (But not nearly as true.)

[Floweret-stormreaver]

@Sôsari-dalaran

It’s more than just being an unpopular class. The question is why. WW had a meta moment in SL I think.

I don’t think it’s the class. If tuning and balancing was good, people would play it.

If you’re chasing the meta you’re not playing monk. The only people who play monk are the ones who like monk. Which isn’t a lot because it’s an unpopular class.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Floweret-stormreaver

If you’re chasing the meta you’re not playing monk. The only people who play monk are the ones who like monk

You can probably replace “Monk” with half of the classes and it would apply the same.

If tuning was good, more people would play it.

[Fookì-sargeras]

@Amyrii-echo-isles

@Myzrym-area-52

Everything is fine to +10

I disagree that everything is fine. Haven’t healed or tanked this season for months. It’s not fun

i hate to admit it, but this pretty much sums up the game as a whole right now. i used to run +15 then +10 to keep my ilvl at raid req in years past, but now, all i do is raid log… and that’s if i don’t give some excuse as to why “missed” raid. i find i’m doing less and less and am enjoying the game the same way. something needs to give; i just have no idea what it may take now.

[Tanksdead-alleria]

Then just make tanks op. People like op.

@Fookì-sargeras

i hate to admit it, but this pretty much sums up the game as a whole right now. i used to run +15 then +10 to keep my ilvl at raid req in years past, but now, all i do is raid log… and that’s if i don’t give some excuse as to why “missed” raid. i find i’m doing less and less and am enjoying the game the same way. something needs to give; i just have no idea what it may take now.

If they make the game for casuals then try hard will still optimize to show people how good they are. If you make the game for try hards, then casuals will quit.

[Floweret-stormreaver]

@Tanksdead-alleria

Then just make tanks op. People like op.

This would be awful. It would make my gameplay completely detached from my success or failure. Why play at all at that point?

[Tanksdead-alleria]

To brag, it’s the same reason people do it in so many other games. And it worked for years before.

Edit: Example. If its easy to clear through 14 then you will do 18 to prove you can. If any tank can pull 3 packs at once you’ll pull 7. Elite players can always do more.

[Fauxstrasza-stormrage]

What is there to brag about in inviting the best 3 dps? Your performance is irrelevant. Not the best tank anymore because anyone can do it with trivial ease.

[Tanksdead-alleria]

You pull more and do it faster. They did this for years. There were still tanks galore. It was actually easier to find a tank back then. A bad tank did it slowly, a good tank made it faster.