Heroic raiding doesn’t require either of these.
Mythic has always dropped higher Ilvl gear than m+. It’s the difficulty of heroic raiding that’s debatable in comparison to a +15.
I agree, they should up the difficulty of heroic and leave lfr and normal for the pugs. This would help motivate people to join a guild rather than just stay an LFG random.
Better worded thank you
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My mistake, I worded it poorly. This change is intended to hit people who are capable of spamming +15s early to outgear Heroic and enable loot trading early. Why not just loot lock Heroic gear from being tradable?
And now you’re just trolling. “Hey, I think we should kill this alternative endgame!”
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And it’s great that you came to terms with that, but your outdated principles regarding M+ don’t need to destroy fun for others.
Lock trading Heroic and above pieces until early Mythic prog is done, easy fix, everyone goes home happy.
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If all these realm connections help population, sure. As it is though, this isn’t on the player alone. Can’t join a guild if your server doesn’t have the population.
Im not trolling, I legit think a weekly lock on loot for M+ could also solve the issue and keep the M+ ilvl the same. the “/insert smug emoji” was just mocking your emoji for what it was.
This is definitely a problem not just for some servers, but factions as well. I used to be ally, but it was so hard to find groups. I think they should allow cross faction guilds or at least raiding.
Sure. Weekly loot lock M+, remove bonus rolls, trade lock Heroic and M+ until Mythic has been cleared, and allow M+ ilvl to scale beyond Heroic where it’s due. Works for me.
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Theres no need for the trade blocking in raiding or m+ also I already said in previous replys, that yes keys that are at a level of 25+ could have mythic raid tier loot.
Imagine saying “people are entitled” about wanting good rewards from m+, but proceeding to say “the best items should drop from raiding”, because it suits you and what you want to play lol.
Such idiotic people
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Mythic+ is Classic speed-running on steroids. Which is not a compliment or testament to difficulty. It’s cheesing your way through self-imposed obstacles on normally easy content.
I mean the forum was flooded with tears and crying from M+ players who indeed came off entitled, this post was simply a rebuttal to say its not that bad.
To be fair raiding was the only way to get geared for the first 12 years of the game’s existence. You can still gear up with mythic+ with these changes, it’s only 3 ilvls lower than heroic raid gear. A good player can still basically skip gearing in heroic raids and jump straight into mythic raids and down the first few bosses just fine.
I would like to point out that when mage tower came out it was extremely difficult and took many people myself included many attempts similar to some mythic bosses, so the time spent is almost similar.
So specifically +25, but not +20? So you don’t consider +15s equivalent to Heroic? You’re not entirely clear in your stance. Mythic raid fights do have variance in difficulty. Wrathion, Maut, or Skitra are all much simpler fights than, say, Ra-den, or Vexiona, or Il’gynoth on Mythic.
You… really have no idea what M+ is. The dungeons’ difficulty scales up with key level. IE, enemy damage and health scales up with key level, with added modifying factors at 4, 7 and 10. It’s not just blitzing a base Mythic dungeon as fast as you can, it’s increasing the difficulty of the dungeon while still trying to clear in a specific timeframe.
In an ideal world I would like the easier keys of M+ to be a stepping stone leading into raiding, while the harder keys can rewards higher ilvl. I’ve been clear on that point and why I think its healthier for the game. A subjective view, but one that I believe.
Yes the sweet spot for mythic ilvl drops should be somewhere in the upper 20’s with no small increments up to that level, but a hard hurdle to jump over to achieve that mythic tier loot.
Yes, but this only helps my argument. This is good and gives those that are stepping into raiding for the first time some ground to stand on to get comfy with mythic raiding. They usually have worst loot than the bosses later on that would be a bigger hurdle, similar to differences in M+ key level.
The way you spoke upon it earlier seemed to be that you simply wanted keystones to be relegated to a stepping stone underneath raiding. If that wasn’t how you initially intended your views to be taken, I apologize. The lower keystones [+2-+12 or so] reasonably are, to a degree, already stepping stones into either higher keys or raiding. So, I wonder what you’d think about a system like this:
-+15 end-of-dungeon drops Heroic item level [currently it drops 5 higher than Heroic, so downgrade to equalize the two]
-+15 end-of-week drops Heroic item level equivalent to last two bosses [since last two are always 10 higher than rest of raid]
-+20 end-of-dungeon drops Heroic item level equivalent to last two bosses
-+20 end-of-week drops Mythic or slightly-above-Mythic item level
My thoughts are this, to justify.
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Earlier on in the tier, I’d say that pugging or pushing +15s with an average group isn’t too much harder than pugging or pushing with an average group in Heroic. It doesn’t necessarily need to drop loot above Heroic item level, and perhaps the mistake is in scaling end-of-week to Mythic.
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Pushing up to +20 levels and having actual reward differences would encourage a wider breadth of key runs beyond the current “do 15 for weekly, spam for echoes or push for score” environment. The people who would be capable of doing +20s [not much different than a few months ago] are people who have either been doing +15s, or have cleared Heroic a few times and are getting a bit through Mythic as well.
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Glad you don’t run Blizzard, because you’d see subs decline overnight. Honestly, that’s the WORST business decision Blizzard could make. M+ is good business and gating that content is just asking people to leave.
Now this guy, he knows how a massive online business is run. I’d say 30+ should be a top ilvl endgame gear level, which in turn makes for less raiding focus (yes, less) and that way more people are running M+ content and getting even more people to turn their attentions to it. It’s fast, it’s fun and the rewards are good from start to finish. That’s how a good business operates; it’s called customer satisfaction.
Mythic raiders can have their fancy gear looks. It’s always been about epeen in terms of how you look anyway. The top end M+ guys should be rewarded and acknowledged for their effort and the fact that as raids come and go, they are still in there slogging it out. Most people couldn’t do 30+ even in BiS mythic raiding gear, that’s a fact.
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Yes, I agree with most of this, but I still think raiding should be the end tier goal for pve. I think certain avenues should be encouraged to get more people into raiding.
M+ should have really good rewards, but raiding should have slightly better gear or more time efficiency routes to get gear faster, until you reach the higher levels of M+
I’ve literally been saying that higher keys can reward mythic level loot.
No, not all people want to raid, and raid is a horrible experience.
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