They wanted full blue and full red continents. It had nothing to do with Blizzard wanting to dismantle matriarchies.
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Then why are Blood Elves still around in Eastern Kingdoms? When is the Alliance going to genocide the Blood Elves and destroy Silvermoon City?
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For the same reason the Draenei are still near Kalimdor. They will never, ever edit the TBC scapes of Draenei or Blood Elf lands.
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Destroying 3 zones and burning down Teldrassil and making sure it’s as humiliating as possible for Night Elves all the while Sylvanas laughs at the Alliance when she blows up Lordaeron. All equal acts.
I’m sure it just has to do with Blizzard not wanting to touch old TBC zones despite them adding scenarios to them anyways like the Blood Elf heritage armor and Exodar scenario in Legion and it has nothing to do with deliberate intentions in how they write this story.
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Trust me, it could have been much, much, much more humiliating.
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I’m sure it could have too. Blizzard would probably just delete Night Elves from the game if it didn’t look so blatant. Instead they just created and butt-pulled Nightborne on the Horde to shift away from Night Elves entirely and replace that lore with the Nightborne. It’s pretty obvious in the current Azshara raid that this is the direction they are going.
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Weird you called it as humiliating as possible, then.
The Nightborne and Night Elves don’t really share many themes. That’s a pretty weak stretch. Just because they look similar doesn’t mean one is replacing the other. Especially being on different factions opposing each other.
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You’re right they don’t share many themes because there was no such thing as “Nightborne” until Legion. They were made up to take up the Night Elf mantle but this time on the Horde. The “Nightborne” are now who represent Kaldorei history as evident that it is Thalyssra given the main spotlight in the Azshara raid. Shandris is there and hardly says a word. Tyrande is non-existent.
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Well I’m right because they just don’t share many themes, their recent creation doesn’t relate to that. Blizzard could have given them a lot more shared themes, but they didn’t. Not sure why you keep putting Nightborne in quotes.
The Nightborne are just one part of Night Elf history. As much as the High Elves, Naga, Highborne, Night Elves, and Satyr’s play a part. They all are aspects of that. But they also have greatly divergent aspects after the Sundering.
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Seriously, out of all the things in this game … people really need to stop considering THIS an insult to the Night Elves. There are many, Many, MANY things to complain about with the NE writing in WoW … but THIS ain’t one of them.
The Nightborne are a literal surviving relic of the very civilization the Night Elves fought against (and discarded) years ago. Many of the Kaldorei populous still holds deep mistrust and even contempt for the very way of life the Nightborne practice. On top of this Tyrande’s reasons for being in Surumar were explicitly stated as being merely a facet of fighting the Legion (it was an ends to a means); and no matter what people say … her being BOTH the political head AND chief religious authority of the Kaldorei nation means she holds an ABSURD amount of sway (and she’s not even the most extreme on this topic … Maiev …).
Bluntly, despite being of the same generation as the Keldorei, the Shal’dorei have FAR more shared cultural norms with the Sin’dorei. The Sin’dorei literally built their entire civilization in emulation to the Shal’dorei’s. Liadrin’s and Rommath’s reasons for being in involved in the Surumar campaign are also a LOT more focused on the well-being of the Nightborne people than Tyrande’s; with Liadrin fully understanding how painful it is to go through extreme mana-withdrawal AND have a beloved leader betray you to the forces of the Fel. Rommath is just geeking out about the chance to talk Arcane shop with some VERY Arcane elves.
That doesn’t get into the fact that Liadrin was already clearly attempting to recruit them on Argus (quite literally her ONLY line of dialogue in Argus is her “Stay a while and listen” when she’s already trying to seed that sort of alliance between the Red and Purple elves).
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Because they are fake phony Night Elves. I don’t take them serious. And I dislike it even more that they are on the Horde. It’s whatever though. I’ve come to accept Blizzard has plans to morph the Horde into something unrecognizable and completely different. Doesn’t mean I can’t criticize it though.
The High Elves, Naga, and Highborne weren’t just butt-pulled in a single expansion and already had preestablished plots going into WoW. The “Nightborne” were made up and in the very next expansion Blizzard writes in a genocide of the Night Elf nation. If that isn’t replacement then I don’t know what is.
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Again, just because they look the same doesn’t mean they are. They are their own thing and are more comparable to Blood Elves than Night Elves.
Everything in the story started somewhere. The Nightborne had as much grounding as any of those other races when they first showed up.
Because unrelated things can’t happen, lol. It isn’t a replacement when their themes are very different and they fill a slot a bunch of other races do (having a connection to the Night Elf Empire).
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Don’t mind Trivel, he still despises the idea that there are even Undead and Elves on the Horde; so the idea that the Elves would get an Elven friend likely drives him bonkers.
The only real step it takes to realizing that: A) the Nightborne are their own thing (not a Nightelf ripoff); and B) The Nightborne got close to the Sin’dorei, and thus became part of the Horde … is realizing that the Sin’dorei are part of the Horde (and have been for 13 years). And once you get over that hurdle (and tbh, the Sin’dorei do share many thematic traits with the other Horde races … just not aesthetics) … its easy to accept the NBs.
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The Nightborne didn’t exist before Legion. Really all there is to be said. The lore was specifically retconned to invent them. Surumar is in ruins in WC3.
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And? Just because Baine kills some Forsaken doesn’t mean he’s an “Alliance sympathizer” he’s more comparable to Orgrim Doomhammer than he is to Anduin. Anyone can say these things for anything. What they are is what the writers intend them to be and in my opinion the intention is to slowly throughout BFA and in the following expansion is to replace Night Elves with “Nightborne” because it is part of the transformation of the Horde I believe they are going for.
Sure. Doesn’t mean it’s not bad writing and purely retconned and that it doesn’t contain any intentions from the writers.
I’d love to see the Blood Elf reaction if they wiped out Quel’Thalas and made it clear it was a genocide of Blood Elves and in the process made Alleria and the Void Elves the main focal points for any continued progression of historical Blood Elf lore.
Yet you are minding me but only by replying to someone else and not directly to me.
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And yet the reinvention of it created one of the single best questing zones (and experiences) in this game thus far. Small retcons for the sake of that sort of quality content is not something I’m outwardly opposed of; the Nightborne were an asset to the story of Legion … that’s what matters (and the only real lore they had to really step on to accomplish feat was … be a vestige of a Highborne civilization thought extinct).
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Fine, you’ve made it very clear what you think about Elves and Undead being on the Horde, so it does not surprise me that you would be opposed to MORE elves being on the Horde (and would try to find strawman arguments to make your dislike of that addition seem less subjective). Bluntly, the Nightborne are their own thing … and the DO have far more cultural similarities with the Sin’dorei than the Kaldorei. Once you get over the absurdity of the Sin’dorei being on the Horde (which really is no longer that absurd after 13 years) … and the fact that the WoT is nonsense … the Shal’dorei being brought into the Horde by the Sin’dorei isn’t not that much of a stretch (and in now way is an insult to the Kaldorei race or playerbase).
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I am opposed to more Elves on the Horde. We had enough already. But I’ve accepted it. You can still be opposed to something while also accepting it for what it is since obviously I can’t change it. You’ve even made similar observations as me in that you’ve stated that the Horde is running out of characters except for Elves. You just don’t come to the same conclusions as to why that is as I do.
I just think it looks like nonsense. And I feel like there is hardly any distinction between Alliance and Horde anymore.
As for Undead. I accept them as Horde. I just don’t like them having leadership control over the Horde because it will never end well by the nature of how Undead has been written in this game.
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If your argument is ‘they look similar and share one aspect, so they are the same’, I would call it a dumb opinion. But obviously you are entitled to say it. Yes.
Writers can intend all they want, doesn’t change interpretation. They might intend Sylvanas to be redeemed, doesn’t mean people will think she is.
Doesn’t mean it is/does either.
I bet you would. Though, I don’t think the last part has happened to the Night Elves.
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Well if that’s how you feel about my opinion then that’s what it is. Honestly I feel the same way about yours.
You will continue believing the “Nightborne” are some great meaningful addition to the Horde that adds great story to the Horde. And I will continue to believe it to be a rather pointless addition to the Horde and a slap in the face to Night Elves more than anything. I await you to praise the addition Lightforged Undead on the Alliance as great story or a butt-pulled race of Orcs on the Alliance.
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