Page 115 explains how Tyrande and the Sentinels also expected the Druids to help, as reflective of Jarod’s commentary in Wolfheart.
Of course. Druids were desired to be part of the society and were expected to help.
The exact quote is
The druids regularly entered long periods of hibernation as they journeyed through the Dream. This aloofness frustrated Tyrande and her Sentinels. Though they often sought the druids’ help to safeguard night elf lands, few of Malfurion’s followers were ever awake to answer the call.
Not help leading. Help protecting.
Druids, largely, are not part of Night Elven society, though, despite what Tyrande and as you mentioned Jarod, wanted. . This is a point I’ve been harping on for years. It is, actually, something also directly referenced in Wolfheart. As Malfurion and Tyrande were both leaders of the Night Elves, but also leaders of their respective orders, they were forcing integration between Druids and Sentinels.
This was, IIRC, mentioned when the Horde was first attacking the Night Elven base in Ashenvale, during the first attack that happened. OR at least around there.
In fact, to directly address the Druids leading before the formation of the Sentinels…
“Tyrande deftly positioned the Sisterhood as the leaders of both the night elf government and the military. She also forged a new fighting force: The Sentinels. Composed of devout and highly trained warrior women, this order dedicated itself to protecting the emergent night elf society.”
Which means Tyrande was, flat out, leader before the Sentinels were formed, as she took control of the Military as it was before the Sentinels became the defacto fighting force.
As an aside, it should be noted that Sentinels and at least some sort of Military existed side by side as late back as the War of the Shifting Sands, considering Fandral had is son die in said war.
I don’t really think the Sentinels become the primary Military of the Night Elves was something that happened until later officially, as the Sentinels were more or less the people who patrolled the cities and forests to make sure all was good.
I am, of course, going off on a tangent at this point, but…
The main thrust of the point was that the Tyrande was already leader of the Government and Military before she ever formed the Sentinels.
EDIT: I say patrol the forest… I mean less beat cop and more National Guard, I suppose.
EDIT 2: Alllllthough… Considering it’s also explicitly stated that they were devout… Maybe one of the Inquisitions is a better comparison…
Just, you know. They weren’t the, initially, only Military around
That is my contention with the Warcraft Encyclopedia, as it presents the Druids as not answering to the Night Elf government: “Tyrande organized a new army called the Sentinels. This army is still directed by the Sisters of Elune, and thus Tyrande has been sole head of the night elf government throughout the ensuing millennia… Highly respected by the rest of night elf society, the druids are nevertheless outside of it, for they answer to no government.”
However, as you pointed out, the Druids were expected to, and by year -9,300 during the War of the Satyr, even before the formation of the Cenarion Circle, the Druids did answer the call of the Night Elf government according to Chronicle:
- Tyrande’s adopted daughter, the captain of the Sentinels, Shandris Feathermoon, proposed a new strategy to fight the demons. She suggested that the druids be called from their sojourns in the Emerald Dream so they could be used as a fighting force.
And of course the Druids were also called upon by Tyrande again at the return of the Legion during the Third War.
Chronicle also specifies on page 119 that the Long Vigil didn’t start until year -7,300, and on that page also notes:
- With Malfurion in the Dream, the task of governing the daily activities of the Night Elves fell to Tyrande.
Which implies they had been governing together before he went into the Dream with the other Druids.
I mean, that really depends on if you think Tyrande was a tyrant or not, right? She asks, the Druids say no… She probably COULD have forced the issue, but considering her aversion to Azsharian-like authority it’s not likely a point she is going to press.
The Government can ask for help, that doesn’t mean someone needs to answer the call. And when someone answers the call, that doesn’t mean they are suddenly subservient to the Government.
Like, American Citizens are expected to and called on to help protect their land. This is the basis for the Army. But, generally speaking, the United States doesn’t force people into service because help is needed (There was the Draft, but it was pretty controversial… and still is as a subject).
Or hey, let’s look at it from a more academic point of view, which I think works better for Druids anyway. Academics and engineers are asked to make, design and create weapons of war. But if (and again I’m using America) comes and tells them to create a weapon of war, they can freely say no.
Sure… the issue COULD be pressed…
But in general, people have a choice to help or not.
I think you make a fair analysis. Especially reflectively on Tyrande not wanting to be tyrannical, as she did feel she overstepped those bounds in Stormrage in pointing out she could command Broll if she needed to in order to keep him safe.
Your thoughts on my latter point about the Long Vigil in Chronicle?
I’m not saying that they shouldn’t. I’m saying that they aren’t built to do so.
Aggression is a built in feature of our reptillian brains. You might as well expect the species to eschew sex.
Historically her way of forcing issues involves killing those who disagree.
The Wardens are a curious example, as, though Chronicle omits who banned the arcane and who exiled the Highborne, where in the Warcraft III Manual both were done by Malfurion, even in Chronicle on page 112 it was still Malfurion who appointed Maiev to watch Illidan:
- Malfurion then charged the priestess Maiev Shadowsong to stand guard over the wayward sorcerer.
Wow is a fictional story, and stories are usally about ideals humans cannot reach in real life, like if you havent picked it up by now but wow is a anti war story
Well… That really goes back to, again… I think Malfurion was highly respected, but not, legally speaking, in power.
I will reference, again page 114…
Meanwhile, Malfurion continued fostering a culture of druidism among his people. Having abandoned arcane magic, many former sorcerers embraced Malfurion’s teachings and devoted themselves to living in harmony with nature.
His teachings are and were important. He is Shan’do Stormrage, after all. Teacher.
His retreat from Night Elf society would do exactly that. It would leave the day to day lives to Tyrande. No longer would she just be responsible for actual big picture stuff, but also how and what direction she would want teachings to go.
Thing of Malfurion like Mr. Rogers on steroids.
Everyone knows him, everyone loves him, everyone has learned from him, and he is a major influencer on the culture and development of peoples day to day lives in many cases.
But, you know, larger scale.
But honestly that’s just rationalizing. I think that was not caught by Q&A and it went through.
Especially with the bit about the mantle of leadership bit, when it was already established she had said mantle for a few thousand years at that point…
I by no means am trying to advocate that Malfurion didn’t hold a massive role in Night Elf culture and the shaping and rebuilding of Society. But it was more that of an advisor or spiritual guru than a legal and political figure…
The Wardens are a curious example, as, though Chronicle omits who banned the arcane and who exiled the Highborne, where in the Warcraft III Manual both were done by Malfurion, even in Chronicle on page 112 it was still Malfurion who appointed Maiev to watch Illidan:
Malfurion then charged the priestess Maiev Shadowsong to stand guard over the wayward sorcerer.
That would be where I defer to the Warcraft Encylopedia on the subject.
Shortly after the Great Sundering, [Malfurion Stormrage]sentenced his brother Illidan to imprisonment for having created a second Well of Eternity. In inflicting this punishment, Malfurion hoped to prevent Illidan from continuing his reckless pursuit of arcane power. By this point in time, however, Illidan was already an extraordinarily powerful sorcerer, and Malfurion dared not leave his captive twin to be guarded by only one or two jailors.
One of the senior Sisters of [Elune], Maiev Shadowsong, had already shown her competence in guarding Illidan before he was brought to trial. Malfurion accordingly asked Maiev to gather additional volunteers from the Sisters of Elune. Maiev obeyed, and Malfurion called this new group the Watchers, for he charged them with ensuring that Illidan never escaped the barrow prison. Maiev, as the Watchers’ leader, would answer to the head of night elf government, High Priestess [Tyrande Whisperwind]
So Malfurion asked, Maiev said yes, he gave them a snazzy name and Tyrande made it official, I guess.
Later on
The Watchers were created specifically and exclusively to be Illidan’s jailors, but as further threats came up, Tyrande broadened the Watchers’ role to include guarding other prisoners. Maiev took grim pleasure in these added responsibilities. Watchers became jailors and marshals: they policed the barrow prisons and hunted down dangerous criminals.
We see that Tyrande expanded their duties.
The Watchers, and as a result, the Warden did more than just disagree with Tyrande. They committed Treason. They were officially (as far as we are told) a group that answered to her, and only to her in a Governmental capacity.
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I don’t see why the distinction matters.
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To be fair, this is my feelings on the Warcraft Enyclopedia and whoever wrote it simply missing the Warcraft III Manual, while whoever put the books in-game did not.
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It matters because any power Malfurion had was unofficial.
It leads to conversations like “Malfurion forbid Tyrande from freeing Illidan, she disobeyed her leader”
Not if they were co-leaders even back then.
Why does that matter?
That is fair as well.
Why does that matter?
A priest in well loved mega church declares war against Italy and sends his followers out to wage war on the nation.
The Government leader and military declares war against Italy and sends his army out to wage war on the nation.
See how these are viewed by the world at large.
And that’s why that matters
Given that the Night Elf government is a theocracy lead by a priestess, no, I do not see the relevant difference. Nor how these things are widely relevant differences in how people in the world view them beyond possibly people just dislike religion more, not something being derived from a nation.
Ultimately, power is power. Derived from respect or force either way.
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Steve Danuser did kindly answer my question on Twitter:
Though, I imagine the same could be said about the Warcraft III Manual. I asked a follow up question, but he has not replied to that. I consider it lucky that he even answered my first question, though.
I will bring it down further.
Mark Ruffalo the beloved actor and social activist tells everyone that it’s ok to go into rich peoples homes and steal from them. He is an unofficial voice of power in that his voice is wide ranging, has the weight to boost platforms, and people will listen to him.
The United States Government says that isn’t ok.
Which one Is going to win?
You think it doesn’t matter. It matters very much. It means that Tyrande’s motions to set things a certain way trump anything Malfurion had to say at the time.
Not that he was ignored, mind you. That ultimately, it was Tyrande who saw the wisdom of what was being said and executed it.
Though, I imagine the same could be said about the Warcraft III Manual. I asked a follow up question, but he has not replied to that. I consider it lucky that he even answered my first question, though.
Interesting. Can’t say I’m surprised tat the answer though
As you said, flexible.