The Kaldorei Conundrum

I don’t think the Night Elves belong on the Horde either. I was just mentioning Blood Elves in that if a case can be made for the Night Elves joining the Horde then a case can certainly be made for Blood Elves joining the Alliance. I’m not going to entertain this idea that Horde is the faction for every single Elf race in the game and somehow no Elves fit into the Alliance. It’s nonsense. I believe the Alliance should have more Elves on their faction than the Horde but for gameplay reasons that isn’t allowed because Elves are popular races.

Anytime Blizzard introduces an Elf race to a faction then the other faction requires their own Elf race too. Otherwise people will complain. Although I do believe Blizzard took the easy way out with Void Elves when it should’ve been High Elves. Blizzard was afraid of giving the Alliance a more popular Elf race than the Horde so they made up Void Elves as a weird compromise. Void Elves still ended up being more popular than the Nightborne anyways… But High Elves would’ve been a big hit and Blizzard can’t bring themselves to give the Alliance a popular allied Elf race that could have potential to shrink the population gap between the two factions or worse yet… Make the Alliance more popular than the Horde. :scream:

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Meh … well that and High Elves are essentially an extinct culture, a fragment of a fragment of the still remaining Quel’thalas elves (and one awkwardly denied access to the vast majority of their own lore due to actions they themselves have made in the last 15 years). On top of this, they are essentially held together by a SINGLE character … Vareesa (who has been on Sylvie’s hit list for quite a while). If anything happened to her … they’d be done.

Long story short, the reason I don’t take calls for PC High Elves very seriously is that many people are headcannoning what they are actually described as being; and mostly just being interested in them for their aesthetic value. The reason I DO take them seriously, is there is only so long those aesthetics will suffice … and the HE players will inevitably start demanding more and more of the BE content their own PC race abandoned rights to years ago.

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This argument always falls flat on its face because of the very inclusion of Void Elves this point is made in light of.

This point, too, when people are already asking for a Quel’thalas incursion lead by the Void Elves.

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Which is in of itself its own issue … however, I will argue that the Quel’dorei aren’t much better off in the available lore department than the Ren’dorei are right now (the prior is denied access to the vast majority of its lore due to their own decisions; the latter is a “culture” in its infancy). There is also some serious redundancy between the two, with both being exiles of Quel’thalas.

However, on a conceptual level … the Ren’dorei do distinguish themselves more than the Quel’dorei; with the latter being essentially just a slightly more middle ground between the Sin’dorei and Human cultures. The VEs also have far more obvious potential for explosive growth and development with so much OG, Void, and Light based content on the Horizon (as well as their conceptual “greying” of the Void itself). The HEs … have far fewer opportunities…

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Same could be said of almost any of the races. Humans, Gnomes, Draenei, Pandaren, Orcs, Darkspear, Etc.

None have any particularly interesting catches for development going forward, and haven’t shown much change despite everything that has happened in WoW. That the High Elves don’t have some lore catch for some cosmic force or other doesn’t make them any less playable than any other race that doesn’t, either.

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High Elves are just Blood Elves except they like the Alliance and are vegan. That’s really the only difference.

Void Elves at least have original themes and struggles, even if they aesthetically look similar to Blood Elves.

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Look, far be it for me to deny things people want to play … but I wish people would just be honest about why they want to play them. They want humans with pointy ears on the Alliance, so they can play a BE without all the baggage of the horrors the BEs went through during the 3rd War. That does not however mean that they can get access to the content of the BEs; which even the Ren’dorei’s situation renders them with more rights to Quel’thalas and its history.

The Quel’dorei abandoned their people … after the 2nd War; during the invasion of the Scourge; and outright attacked them during the Purge of Dalaran. People forget just how vicious Vareesa and her Silver Covenant were during that tragedy, and how it was THEY who slaughtered the Sunreaver’s only means of escape. Due to this … due to their own actions … the ONLY rights to Quel’thalas and its history the Quel’dorei have now are those that the Sin’dorei allow them…

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I imagine most players who play Blood Elves play them for the aesthetics and don’t actually know much about the lore. Much would likely be the same for the majority of players who would play High Elves.

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Sad but true. Its likely why you see so many BE avatar posters beings so dogmatic in their support for Sylvie; when they should be livid she laced their precious racial name with so much hypocrisy. Seriously, why did people think the BEs got their Racial Heritage questline so early in BfA if not to hammer home those Quel’thalas/Teldrassil parallels?

Its a shame too, because Blood Elf lore fascinating.

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That’s all well and good. My main gripe with people who want playable high elves isn’t “I’m the only one allowed to play a pretty elf”. It’s the fact that what they are asking for is a playable race that is identical physically and thematically to a horde race but on team blue. Which I don’t think is really fair.

I am personally a big fan of Gnomes, Night Elves, Draenei and their themes. When I want to play them, I play on my Alliance alts.

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This argument doesn’t really stand up, either, because of Void Elves. In the right transmog, Void Elves are physically identical to Blood Elves, and culturally are Blood Elves, and can even cross-faction communicate with the same race language. If anything, they are even bloodier Blood Elves, tapping into the void when Blood Elves don’t even play with the fel any more.

With any luck Blizzard will get rid of the factions and you can play any of these and play with anyone you want that’s playing a Horde character at the same time. At which point I hope Blizzard adds High Elves and Wildhammer Dwarves simply because there would not be any reason not to any more.

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True, but the people I’m referring to are still not pleased with having Void Elves. What they want are “pure” high elves (ie. blonde blue eyed light skinned).

I think Void Elves have way more unique themes. They have the whole fight against the whispers thing. They have the shadow based culture as opposed to the Blood Elves’ light based culture. We have comrade Umbric wanting to prove himself to the Alliance and demonstrate their powers are a gift not a curse.

High Elves have nothing unique going on besides not wanting to drain mana from magical creatures? I’d rather side with the Alliance and mooch off them than help my own people rebuild?

I mean, frankly if Blizzard is going to do away with the factions, they should just add a blue eye option to blood elves and tada! There’s a high elf.

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Honestly, I’m rather ardently opposed to the total breakdown of factions.

I have a feeling with the constantly escalating stakes and power-scaling that such a decision to outright destroy the factions would end very poorly for the Horde races going forward. The factions STILL existed in Legion, yet we saw how that expansion turned out for the Red Team (barely a shred of representation, and Alliance fans blaming US for their reps being made neutral to facilitate our inclusion in an expansion Blizz was too lazy to write us into). It would also feel very awkward to have all these ARs joining each faction, only to disintegrate them a few months later.

Just … end … the Faction Conflict. You need not end the Factions to end the conflict itself.

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This is all true, and I like all this about the Void Elves as well.

I have two Void Elf alts myself.

I still want High Elves for aesthetic reasons as well. Though I obviously hope they don’t change the High Elves using Night Elf greetings and lines, because that’s what I like about them. And because I grinded the Silver Covenant rep back before it was easy to do so (and back before there was any reason to do so before Patch 3.1). My personal reasons aren’t very deep.

In the short story In the Shadow of the Sun I find Aurora Skycaller and Renthar Hawkspear and the High Elves having had to survive in the Plaguelands on their own and what they went through far more interesting than the rest of the story being Lor’themar’s pity party for being a chump politician. And in Quest for Pandaria - Part Four I was actually more interested in Vyrin Swiftwind even more than I was of Talithar’s act of self-sacrifice.

There are interesting stories to be had with the High Elves. I don’t think people who are against their playability want to think about that, though.

It would never work for the same reason Void Elves didn’t meet peoples wants. Even if Blizzard literally added even fairer skinned, blue eyed Blood Elves (and I already role play a Frost Death Knight Blood Elf as a High Elf to achieve that very aesthetic) people would still want High Elves added so that they could say they were playing a High Elf and not a Blood Elf. And, I dunno, so the NPCs would call them high elves when using the <race> tag in flavor text or something.

I am ardently for the total breakdown of factions, but for gameplay reasons and to eliminate faction population balance issues. That it would likely mean a faction war could never happen again would just be a bonus.

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That’s interesting to me because I actually found that to be the slump in that story. I found Aethas’ optimistic naivety vs Rommath’s jaded outlook in the beginning and then especially the Sylvanas scene and Lor’themar/Rommath’s reactions to be some of my favorite material in any of the WoW media. I saw Aurora and Renthar to be the ones throwing a pity party. That may have something to do with our personal opinions on High Elves though.

I have not read the other piece you linked though, so I’ll need to get around to that eventually. I think there’s the possibility to write stories around anything. I just find that High Elves as they are now, to be carbon copies of Blood Elves baring minor differences whereas Void Elves are far more unique physically and thematically.

If blizzard did decide to remove factions (I’m personally not a fan but they’re going to do what they want to do) then I don’t really care if they make High Elves into a playable race. I probably won’t play one since I think they’re kind of gross people, but if Alliance and Horde aren’t a thing then I don’t care. However, for as long as Alliance and Horde are still a thing I’m super against Alliance getting an exact copy of a Horde race thats been around for over 10 years.

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To be fair, my favorite part of that story was Rommath calling Sylvanas a monster and telling Lor’themar to let the Ghostlands go rather than be her puppet.

I don’t. Blood Elves have gotten to be cushy in Quel’Thalas after the Alliance defeated Kil’jaeden at the Sunwell Plateu and Velen reignited the Sunwell for them, while the High Elves have still had to live in exile all this time. Their stories are not the same.

Now if you said High Elves are a non-voidy carbon copy of Void Elves, that I do find to be closer to the truth, but then, that is also what people want.

All the more reason I hope Blizzard does away with the faction divide then.

Im a fan of Sylvanas as a character but I thought that was an awesome bit as well.

That’s not true. The high elves living the rough life in exile at the lodge all became wretched or died because they overdosed on some magical artifact they found. The vast majority live in Dalaran just like they did when Quel’Thalas was destroyed and they decided to stay there and not help rebuild (though I’m sure they’re happy enough to mooch off the Sunwell they played no part in restoring.)

Lets not pretend the High Elves are the ones who walked the rough road.

They seemed like a mighty race before Cataclysm. I mean when the orcs first encountered them they were excited. They considered them a worthy true challenge, compared to the humans they’d encountered in the past.

The Kal’Dorei had a military might, and intriguing culture that made Kalimdor for the Alliance seem more mysterious and awe inspiring in nature.

But since the Cataclysm where they made all the dragons mortal, ravaged the Kal’Dorei lands and kept preaching about ‘Mortals’ then towards ‘Human Potential’ - shoving it down our throats with a toilet brush so hard that they even gave Jaina more dialog than Shandris in Nazjatar (Especially considering they were facing AZSHARA) it became less of a ‘Azeroth’ game and more of a ‘Earth-2.0 / Sims’ world.

I was saddened that Tydande or Malfurion didn’t come to foil plans made in Nazjatar given the history.
Now, I feel gnomes get more attention than Nightelves do. But altogether it’s all about the humans now. No more fierce dragons and being the underdog - No more needing to band together and defy odds as a united people, no more feeling legendary walking amongst immortals.
Lately it feels they’re aiming towards ‘World of Mundane’ now, but who knows? Perhaps they’re laying out a ‘Come back’ or restoration phase where the dragons become mighty again, sets out a chain of events; more threats & mysteries arising - And the Kal’Dorei strike back harder and stronger than ever? One can hope …

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These two statements kind of contradict each other. The High Elves Quel’Lithien Lodge struggled for years in the Plaguelands to survive, were killed by Nathanos (and amusingly the Blood Elves didn’t even know that Nathanos had been raised until this short story, despite that the Blood Elves had been allied with the Forsaken since the beginning of Burning Crusade) and then some mysterious artifact (likely the Crystal of Zin-Malor given Aurora Skycaller’s quests involving it back in Classic) turned most of them into Wretched, and you don’t think this is a rough road?

Beyond that, my preference is for the High Elves still at Quel’Danil Lodge in the Hinterlands, though I do acknowledge that the Silver Covenant High Elves would be the simpler group to implement, and they have it pretty nice in Dalaran.

It is also pretty long, but here are some excerpts if you’re interested that are the relevant parts of what I’m talking about (though the rest of the story itself is quite interesting, and for once paints elements in the Alliance just as morally reprehensible as elements in the Horde, and elements in the Horde that are as morally upstanding as the elements in the Alliance, and even addresses the Horde and Alliance having worked together at Mount Hyjal. It’s a good read, though could have used better pacing):

    "Look," Baenan responded, "I'm a dwarf. Me people are a straightforward bunch. Ye say ye're here on reconnaissance. Well, ye may be, but we got no way o' knowin' that. We just want our holdings in Theramore tae be safe. Let us escort ye back tae Durotar's waters. That's me captain's offer."

    Captain Aldrek burst out laughing. Baenan’s heart sank.

    “And that’s precisely the offer I’m rejecting,” the orc said. He snapped his fingers at a guard.

    “This dwarf is our prisoner.”


    Bound uncomfortably in the bilge of the Warchief’s Fist, Baenan could hear distant rumblings that sounded like the march of feet and the rolling into place of heavy cannons. The filthy orc captain was preparing to launch an attack against the Elwynn, and Baenan couldn’t do anything to stop it. There was nothing worse than helplessness. He raged at the Horde.

    Captain Aldrek hadn’t left Baenan alone in his prison. A haughty blood elf, Talithar, stood guard, looking decidedly bored. Baenan hated him with every fiber of his very being.

    “Ye worthless Horde,” Baenan snarled. “Captain Heller will sink ye tae th’ bottom o’ th’ sea as snacks fer th’ naga.”

    “And you with us, if he succeeds,” Talithar replied. “Tragic, really. In order for you to live, your friends have to lose.”

    “If I die, I’ll die happy, knowin’ ye’re goin’ with me,” Baenan retorted.

    “How very noble of you to feel that way.”

    Baenan spat on the floor near the elf’s feet. “Ye blood elves wouldn’t know nobility if ye had th’ definition tattooed on yer foreheads. Pathetic, slavering magic addicts, ye even sold out yer own people!”

    Talithar’s face whitened, giving Baenan the satisfaction of having hit a nerve. He realized it was unwise to bait his jailor, but he was too angry to care.

    “Aye,” he pressed, “I’ve met high elves in me life. I know what ye did tae them. I come from Loch Modan; I’ve heard th’ stories from th’ Farstrider lass there—”

    In a surprising display of raw physical strength, Talithar crossed the room in a single stride and lifted Baenan clean off his feet, slamming him into the wall. He held Baenan there at the blood elf’s own height, almost twice that of the dwarf’s, and stared him dead in the eye.

    “Do not ever—ever—mention her in my presence.” Talithar’s voice was calm, but had a menacing undercurrent that made Baenan’s hair stand on end. He’d intended to upset the elf, but the depth of Talithar’s reaction was shocking. Still, the Horde had taken Baenan captive and denied him the chance to fight with weapons, so he battled with words. And this mage was a symbol of everything he despised.

    “I see ye know Vyrin Swiftwind,” Baenan said, purely out of spite. “Someone special tae ye? Well, she hates yer kind now, an’ everything ye stand fer!”

    Talithar threw Baenan to the floor. The dwarf landed painfully on his shoulder, bracing himself for the mage’s wrath, but Talithar possessed a surprising amount of restraint and took no further action.

    Baenan managed to push himself into a sitting position. His shoulder throbbed, but it was worth it to have provoked the blood elf. Talithar’s head was bowed, and his fists were clenched and white at the knuckles. He looked up, and Baenan’s mouth fell open.

    Talithar’s face was streaked with tears.

    “A wife does tend to be someone special to her husband.” His voice was thick with rage, humiliation, and despair. He reached into the front of his robe and wrenched a thin gold chain from around his neck, hurling it at Baenan’s feet. The necklace boasted no beads or pendant, just two exquisitely crafted rings, a man’s and a woman’s, high elven in design.

    “You think I do not know what I am? We sin’dorei were given a choice: our integrity or our well-being. As if that were any kind of choice at all. I chose my well-being. My wife chose her integrity.”


    The entrance to the bilge had been barred. Chen took a deep breath and kicked down the door, rushing inside and swinging his staff. It whistled through the air harmlessly. Chen stopped, reevaluating the situation. Baenan, the dwarven ambassador, was sitting miserably on the floor with his limbs tied. Sitting equally miserably against the wall was Talithar, the assigned guard.

    Chen lowered his staff. One eye on Talithar, he addressed Baenan.

    “I’ve come to help you escape,” he said. “Talithar, I’m warning you—”

    The elf surprised him with a short, bitter laugh. “I am not going to stop you. Just get out of here.”

    Talithar’s attitude puzzled Chen, but he wasn’t about to question it. Quickly he knelt by Baenan’s side, retrieving a knife to cut his bonds. The dwarf looked up at him gratefully.


    Chen turned to leave, but the dwarf hesitated, reaching down to retrieve a shiny object from the floor. To Chen’s shock, Baenan offered it to Talithar.

    “This is yers,” the dwarf said awkwardly. “Ye should have it back. And”—Baenan paused—“I’m sorry fer what I told ye. It was cruel o’ me.”

    Chen blinked. Clearly, he had missed something.

    “No,” Talithar said softly. He reached out and caressed the two rings, then withdrew his hand. “You were right. Vyrin left me for a reason. I made my choice. It had its consequences.”

    “Aye, but…” Baenan hesitated again. "There’s something else. She used tae talk about ye. I mean, I didn’t know it was ye in particular, but she did mention she had been married. She never told me why she left her husband.

    “She doesn’t hate ye,” Baenan said. “I know she’s angry, but she does miss ye.”

    Talithar’s expression had gone through several permutations while Baenan spoke, and settled at last on wistful melancholy. Still, he did not take the necklace.

    “Keep it,” Talithar said. “But do me a favor, please.”

    Baenan nodded cautiously.

    “When you return to Loch Modan, take the rings to her. Tell her I miss her, and that I never stopped loving her.”

    “I will,” Baenan said. “I promise.”

    Talithar stood up. “You will only have one chance to escape,” he told Chen and Baenan. “If you are caught, you will be executed on the spot. I will do what I can to distract the sailors.”

    “Thank you,” Chen said. “Truly.”

    Talithar smiled, though the sadness didn’t leave his eyes. “Get going.”


    Chen risked a glance back down. He counted six crew, including Karrig. The pandaren swore. Fighting them would waste a lot of time.

    “Go!” called another voice. Talithar came running into view and threw himself before the foot of the ladder below. “I will hold them off!”

    The two fugitives didn’t hesitate. Mouthing silent words of gratitude, Chen hauled himself up the rest of the ladder, and he and Baenan ran.


    “You are a disgrace to the Horde, Talithar Swiftwind!” roared Karrig. “Backstabbing, worthless elf!”

    “I fought for the Horde on the snowfields of Icecrown,” Talithar replied calmly. “And I was proud to do so. But the Horde does not claim all of my loyalty.”

    “Get out of our way,” Karrig snarled, “or die.”

    Talithar lifted both his hands, red balls of flame hovering above his palms. The harsh light brightly illuminated the contents of the hold. Lining the walls were barrels full of gunpowder, extra ammunition for the cannons.

    “Oh,” Talithar said, smiling peacefully, “I have made my choice.”


    “We got tae get over there,” Baenan declared. The pandaren and the dwarf sprinted toward the lifeboats. Chen could see his tol’vir craft among them.

    Chen’s feet were torn from the solid wood beneath them. The roar and heat of a great explosion engulfed him, throwing him and Baenan across the deck, where they crashed into the lifeboats.

    The battle to retain consciousness was one Chen knew he could not afford to lose. Each joint aching, he forced himself onto his knees. A short distance away, Baenan lay face down, his helmet lost in the blast. Chen noticed his own staff rolling a few feet away, and he lunged to grab it, ignoring the pain in his legs. Nothing seemed broken, at least.

    “Baenan!” He shook the dwarf sharply. “Now’s our chance!”

    “That damned fool blood elf!” Baenan groaned as Chen helped him to his feet. “We were in th’ munitions hold!”

    “He couldn’t have survived that,” Chen said heavily, surprised to feel a pang for someone he had threatened just that morning.

    “Aye,” Baenan replied. He looked up at Chen. “Th’ entire ship’ll sink in a matter o’ minutes,” the dwarf said. “Time tae go.”

    Flames licked out from the hole that had been blown in the Warchief’s Fist’s hull. The ship was taking on water fast and listing to one side, making it easier for Chen and Baenan to launch the tol’vir boat.


    “By Muradin’s hammer!” he exclaimed, pulling out Talithar’s necklace, both rings still threaded on the gold chain. “I fergot I had this.”

    “What is it?” Trialin asked.

    “It was Talithar’s,” Baenan answered softly. “He was a blood elf on th’ Horde ship. He saved me life. The rings were his and his wife’s.”

    Nita furrowed her brows. “What?”

    Baenan turned to his sister. “Trialin, do ye remember Vyrin Swiftwind, o’ th’ Farstrider Lodge?”

    “Back in Loch Modan? O’ course I do.”

    “Talithar was married to her,” Baenan said.


    “I… haven’t seen him among the other boats,” Nita said. Baenan shook his head.

    “Ye won’t.” He closed his fist around the twin rings. “‘Twas he that caused th’ explosion on th’ Fist, tae help me an’ th’ pandaren escape. He’s dead.”

    “What are we goin’ tae tell Vyrin?” said Trialin.

    “That her husband died a hero.” Baenan looked up fiercely. “Which way’s fastest tae land? I got a message tae deliver.”

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You do realize there are other high elf lodges besides the one in The plaguelands.

When the Zandalari, your current allies, were planning on rallying the Amani to try and destroy Quel’thalas the high elves were the one who aided in stopping even though your short sided leader needed to be rebuked by Hauldron

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