After playing battlegrounds for 12 years, completing every bg achievement, 400k honor kills, etc:
The faction imbalance has taken all of the fun from pvp.
I'm a hardcore pve'er, and I like to do randoms after raid and during off-time to cap conquest as well as for fun.
Alliance is getting stomped in 19/20 games. It's worse than I've ever seen it. Horde team gets twice as many healers, because roles aren't locked. Alliance gets fresh levelled toons in greens because you're giving away loot boxes for losses...
Completely a product of Blizzard's greed. Elves were added to the horde as a way to entice more people into the faction, and their paid faction changes brought in boat loads of cash. The resulting imbalances also increased the money from server transfers, as the people who didn't want to faction swap had to escape the hell their servers slowly became.
Fix it, blizz. Coming from a hardcore long-time veteran: this is a big problem and you can't continue to ignore it.
3 Likes
10/26/2018 04:13 AMPosted by NoshelterFix it, blizz. Coming from a hardcore long-time veteran: this is a big problem and you can't continue to ignore it.
What is the problem that needs fixing, exactly?
1 Like
10/26/2018 04:41 AMPosted by SigneyWhat is the problem that needs fixing, exactly?
That's what I was thinking. If Horde have more healers, try convincing your faction's healers to queue up. Can't force anyone to play as one.
1 Like
I've given up on unrated BG's for Alliance. Too many games of everyone running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Even with epic BG's, when I get AV I'll just /afk out and take the deserter debuff. I don't know how we manage to win Isle of Conquest sometimes but it's probably a map advantage considering how bad Alliance plays everywhere else.
Our faction sucks.
Our faction sucks.
10/26/2018 04:49 AMPosted by TopicalmemeI've given up on unrated BG's for Alliance. Too many games of everyone running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Even with epic BG's, when I get AV I'll just /afk out and take the deserter debuff. I don't know how we manage to win Isle of Conquest sometimes but it's probably a map advantage considering how bad Alliance plays everywhere else.
Our faction sucks.
It's more of timing/luck thing.
Playing at certain times during the day does make a huge difference. Try playing during the times when kids are in school.
And what exactly are they supposed to do to fix it? Force players to play alliance? Give alliance an unfair advantage like a damage buff? Nerf horde so alliance can win?
There's nothing they can do about what faction people choose to play, and how skillful those players are in PvP.
As trollish as this sounds, it really is a "git gud" situation. Alliance players are typically less skilled in PvP than horde. It's not because they can't be as skilled, but probably more to do with the fact that most alliance players don't PvP, or don't PvP as often/as much
I think some of it also has to do with racials being imbalanced in the past, thus most serious pvpers were horde. Even though racials are better now, the way they were set the idea that "horde is better" in a lot of people's minds, and that idea is still there. Which attracts newer players towards horde rather than alliance.
Also, I don't even think the term "Faction imbalance" applies to BGs, as each team has equal numbers. It really only applies to world PvP, in which case, Blizzard can't really do anything about it. If people don't want to play alliance, they don't want to play alliance...
There's nothing they can do about what faction people choose to play, and how skillful those players are in PvP.
As trollish as this sounds, it really is a "git gud" situation. Alliance players are typically less skilled in PvP than horde. It's not because they can't be as skilled, but probably more to do with the fact that most alliance players don't PvP, or don't PvP as often/as much
I think some of it also has to do with racials being imbalanced in the past, thus most serious pvpers were horde. Even though racials are better now, the way they were set the idea that "horde is better" in a lot of people's minds, and that idea is still there. Which attracts newer players towards horde rather than alliance.
Also, I don't even think the term "Faction imbalance" applies to BGs, as each team has equal numbers. It really only applies to world PvP, in which case, Blizzard can't really do anything about it. If people don't want to play alliance, they don't want to play alliance...
And what exactly are they supposed to do to fix it? Force players to play alliance? Give alliance an unfair advantage like a damage buff? Nerf horde so alliance can win?
There's nothing they can do about what faction people choose to play, and how skillful those players are in PvP.
As trollish as this sounds, it really is a "git gud" situation. Alliance players are typically less skilled in PvP than horde. It's not because they can't be as skilled, but probably more to do with the fact that most alliance players don't PvP, or don't PvP as often/as much
I think some of it also has to do with racials being imbalanced in the past, thus most serious pvpers were horde. Even though racials are better now, the way they were set the idea that "horde is better" in a lot of people minds, and that idea is still there. Which attracts newer players towards horde rather than alliance.
Also, I don't even think the term "Faction imbalance" applies to BGs, as each team has equal numbers. It really only applies to world PvP, in which case, blue can't really do anything about it. If people don't want to play alliance, they don't want to play alliance...
Faction imbalance does apply to instanced pvp, as it does to every other aspect of the game. When one faction has a larger player base to draw from, the odds will go up when it comes to situations like the number of healers in a bg, the number of geared toons, the number of people to actually fill the bg in the first place, ect.
This is a situation that has been brought about completely by Blizzard with their years of tossing cookies to the people to try to lure them to the horde. When enough of that has happened for long enough, the Alliance player base left to fill battlegrounds , dungeons, raids, anything, becomes reduced, at this point to a degree it is becoming pronounced in pretty much every part of the game.
I have a large issue with anyone telling any Alliance they just need to 'get gud' when this is not a problem that is in our control. This is a monster Blizzard has created, and it is up to them to fix it. They need to offer better incentives to play Alliance in the first place, and stop pretending there is not a faction imbalance by using band aid fixes like merc mode.
2 Likes
and what incentive would they offer? Gear? More honor? (Already have that) Damage buff? Nerf horde?10/26/2018 05:04 AMPosted by Miadra
I have a large issue with anyone telling any Alliance they just need to 'get gud' when this is not a problem that is in our control. This is a monster Blizzard has created, and it is up to them to fix it. They need to offer better incentives to play Alliance in the first place, and stop pretending there is not a faction imbalance by using band aid fixes like merc mode.
What exactly could Blizzard do to make people play alliance, that wouldn't give one faction an advantage over they other?
You also have to consider that a lot of people rolled horde a long time ago, and have well established characters now. Even with Blizzard giving extra honor/gear/rewards, a lot of people still would not switch. It's just not worth it to them.
I just don't see what you expect Blizzard to do outside of forcing people to switch factions
It's Blizzard's job to manage the faction balance. When one side is dominating all aspects of the endgame, players who are serious about endgame are going to skew toward that side. New players are going to skew Horde. Faction changes are going to skew Horde. Rerolls are going to skew Horde.10/26/2018 05:15 AMPosted by Bathosand what incentive would they offer? Gear? More honor? (Already have that) Damage buff? Nerf horde?10/26/2018 05:04 AMPosted by Miadra
I have a large issue with anyone telling any Alliance they just need to 'get gud' when this is not a problem that is in our control. This is a monster Blizzard has created, and it is up to them to fix it. They need to offer better incentives to play Alliance in the first place, and stop pretending there is not a faction imbalance by using band aid fixes like merc mode.
What exactly could Blizzard do to make people play alliance, that wouldn't give one faction an advantage over they other?
You also have to consider that a lot of people rolled horde a long time ago, and have well established characters now. Even with Blizzard giving extra honor/gear/rewards, a lot of people still would not switch. It's just not worth it to them.
I just don't see what you expect Blizzard to do outside of forcing people to switch factions
It doesn't matter if it's an unfair advantage. For the health of the game, Blizzard HAS to incentivize playing Alliance.
1 Like
How would they incentivize them? It'd have to be some outright advantage over horde, and then what happens when everyone flocks to alliance because they don't want to be at a disadvantage? Nerf alliance? Not hard to see why they don't want to go down that road<span class="truncated">...</span> and what incentive would they offer? Gear? More honor? (Already have that) Damage buff? Nerf horde?It's Blizzard's job to manage the faction balance. When one side is dominating all aspects of the endgame, the players who are serious about endgame are going to skew toward that side. New players are going to skew Horde. Faction changes are going to skew Horde. Rerolls are going to skew Horde.
What exactly could Blizzard do to make people play alliance, that wouldn't give one faction an advantage over they other?
You also have to consider that a lot of people rolled horde a long time ago, and have well established characters now. Even with Blizzard giving extra honor/gear/rewards, a lot of people still would not switch. It's just not worth it to them.
I just don't see what you expect Blizzard to do outside of forcing people to switch factions
It doesn't matter if it's an unfair advantage. For the health of the game, Blizzard HAS to incentivize playing Alliance.
There really is no way to permanently fix it. If people don't like one faction, nerfing the other will only cause the problem to shift sides...
The only thing they can do is offer more incentives like the honor buff, which from what we've seen, doesn't really help the issue.
I think the bottom line is, most people simply don't like alliance as a faction, and Blizzard can't change what people like
At this point if you really think this is a problem, stop queueing up.
Back during the original scorched earth AV alliance did that and they moved the horde starting point back.
Something pretty drastic has to be done and that will only happen if participation bottoms out.
Back during the original scorched earth AV alliance did that and they moved the horde starting point back.
Something pretty drastic has to be done and that will only happen if participation bottoms out.
I've been saying for years that racial abilities and passives shouldn't have any impact on combat whatsoever. Competitive settings, non-competitive settings, everywhere. It may only scratch the surface on faction imbalance but it couldn't hurt, right?
People have also been suggesting the removal of mercenary mode which I think is interesting, although I don't necessarily agree with it. Obviously queue times would be adversely affected for both factions.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what people want Blizzard to do about it short of impinging upon player agency.
People have also been suggesting the removal of mercenary mode which I think is interesting, although I don't necessarily agree with it. Obviously queue times would be adversely affected for both factions.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what people want Blizzard to do about it short of impinging upon player agency.
The disparity has nothing to do with racials and everything to do with the quality of the players. Not much Blizzard can do about that except somehow entice better players to move back to alliance.
Increased honor gain isn't going to cut it (the only people who actually care about honor and prestige levels are roleplayers) and if horde wants faster queues they can just merc. There is no incentive for a good player on horde to move to alliance. However, there is incentive for good players on alliance to move to horde (better chance of winning).
Increased honor gain isn't going to cut it (the only people who actually care about honor and prestige levels are roleplayers) and if horde wants faster queues they can just merc. There is no incentive for a good player on horde to move to alliance. However, there is incentive for good players on alliance to move to horde (better chance of winning).
10/26/2018 05:31 AMPosted by Bathos...It's Blizzard's job to manage the faction balance. When one side is dominating all aspects of the endgame, the players who are serious about endgame are going to skew toward that side. New players are going to skew Horde. Faction changes are going to skew Horde. Rerolls are going to skew Horde.How would they inventivize them? It'd have to be some outright advantage over horde, and then what happens when everyone flocks to alliance because they don't want to be at a disadvantage? Nerf alliance? Not hard to see why they don't want to go down that road
It doesn't matter if it's an unfair advantage. For the health of the game, Blizzard HAS to incentivize playing Alliance.
There really is no way to permanently fix it. If people don't like one faction, nerfing the other will only cause the problem to shift sides...
The only thing they can do is offer more incentives like the honor buff, which from what we've seen, doesn't really help the issue.
I think the bottom line is, most people simply don't like alliance as a faction, and Blizzard can't change what people like
You're right that there are no permanent fixes. This is a problem that requires ongoing management, and no one wants Alliance to become the dominant faction. We just want it to be competitive again, and as you've pointed out the honor buff clearly isn't cutting it.
Buffing/nerfing factions isn't ideal, but the alternative is to have one faction dominating all of the endgame (not just PVP, but raiding too) until the end of time. As to which buffs/nerfs to hand out, I don't think anyone has an answer to that, but it's Blizzard's job to try things out until they find something that works.
Which is exactly why people get the "get good" response.
Except that one good alliance player can't carry nine bad players to victory by him/herself. Which is why there is a huge incentive for good alliance players to switch factions which makes the problem even worse.
10/26/2018 05:15 AMPosted by Bathosand what incentive would they offer? Gear? More honor? (Already have that) Damage buff? Nerf horde?10/26/2018 05:04 AMPosted by Miadra
I have a large issue with anyone telling any Alliance they just need to 'get gud' when this is not a problem that is in our control. This is a monster Blizzard has created, and it is up to them to fix it. They need to offer better incentives to play Alliance in the first place, and stop pretending there is not a faction imbalance by using band aid fixes like merc mode.
What exactly could Blizzard do to make people play alliance, that wouldn't give one faction an advantage over they other?
You also have to consider that a lot of people rolled horde a long time ago, and have well established characters now. Even with Blizzard giving extra honor/gear/rewards, a lot of people still would not switch. It's just not worth it to them.
I just don't see what you expect Blizzard to do outside of forcing people to switch factions
You bring up some very good points.
One fix would be to combine the horde and alliance players into one pool and use that to fill bg's.
What we want Blizzard to fix is that fact that good competitive players have absolutely no incentive to play Alliance right now. Try reading posts before you reply to them.10/26/2018 06:05 AMPosted by Muffindiving10/26/2018 05:59 AMPosted by VanazarThe disparity has nothing to do with racials and everything to do with the quality of the players.
Which is exactly why people get the "get good" response.
Your racials and your faction aren't winning or losing your BG matches. It comes down to the quality of you and your teammates as a player.10/26/2018 06:02 AMPosted by TopicalmemeBuffing/nerfing factions isn't ideal, but the alternative is to have one faction dominating all of the endgame (not just PVP, but raiding too) until the end of time. As to which buffs/nerfs to hand out, I don't think anyone has an answer to that, but it's Blizzard's job to try things out until they find something that works.
So basically you don't know what you want Blizzard to fix, or how to fix it, but damnit they better fix it right now? Okay.
1 Like
10/26/2018 05:22 AMPosted by TopicalmemeIt's Blizzard's job to manage the faction balance. When one side is dominating all aspects of the endgame, players who are serious about endgame are going to skew toward that side. New players are going to skew Horde. Faction changes are going to skew Horde. Rerolls are going to skew Horde.
That's a slippery slope to deal with. Back in Vanilla, Horde dominated PVP everywhere, even with Alliance having the better chokepoint in AV, Horde still won. There were far more kids in the Alliance. Blood Elves made lots of them reroll and things were balanced for a while.
You'd have to give incentive to play the other faction.
Mercenary mode needs to be removed and the bonus should be extra conquest per win rather than the useless honor that is currently given.
1 Like
10/26/2018 05:15 AMPosted by Bathosand what incentive would they offer? Gear? More honor? (Already have that) Damage buff? Nerf horde?10/26/2018 05:04 AMPosted by Miadra
I have a large issue with anyone telling any Alliance they just need to 'get gud' when this is not a problem that is in our control. This is a monster Blizzard has created, and it is up to them to fix it. They need to offer better incentives to play Alliance in the first place, and stop pretending there is not a faction imbalance by using band aid fixes like merc mode.
What exactly could Blizzard do to make people play alliance, that wouldn't give one faction an advantage over they other?
You also have to consider that a lot of people rolled horde a long time ago, and have well established characters now. Even with Blizzard giving extra honor/gear/rewards, a lot of people still would not switch. It's just not worth it to them.
I just don't see what you expect Blizzard to do outside of forcing people to switch factions
They could start by not making anymore 'mistakes' like they did with warfronts. They could start by maybe giving Alliance mounts other than horses, they could start with better writing for Alliance, ect. It is not just the racials at this point, it is a slew of things, stacking up over the years that have caused this.
Granted, there are people who have stayed true to the horde through it all, as there are those who have stayed true to the Alliance. But there are also those that will jump on whatever ship is flying the brightest flag, and when horde racials stay better in pvp, pve or both for an extended period, this caused all the ship hoppers to go to horde.
At this point, even eliminating racials wont be enough, they are going to have to have some kind of incentive to bring people back to the Alliance. What that might be, I leave up to Blizzard. They created this problem, they need to fix it.