The Horde will never change without punishments

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

Yeah…the Horde and Alliance story have some pretty stark differences.

I would say that it shows especially in CATA and BFA

It is a matter of comparing the renegade start zone with the Worgen

In Gilneas Sylvanas and the renegades are clearly bad people, slaves and ruthless murderers.

On the other hand, in the renegade Party it is not so so showing them only as a race that tries to survive.

The only thing that remains is a Horde of Garrosh quer although belligerent maintains a strict sense of Honor.

In CATA they excuse themselves by saying that there is no good communication between the mission teams and the prolific head.
I think the rush created the same effect in BFA

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

You can’t ask for immediate resolution in the middle of a plot.

If you can this game is two factions and not just one, you can ignore the features and focus on the characters when you tell a neutral story.

But what happened in BFA is that it was decided either by budget or by simple refusal of the creators , leave in the background the history of one of the Parties to the conflict in order to only focus on one that is indisputably the Horde.

it is reasonable for the Alliance to feel frustrated as much or more when the horde was not given time to kick in 7.3

The problem is that we are an important part of the conflict in this case and our characters have personal reasons to be part of the Plot.

[Akston-bloodhoof (Akston)]

I think its more base than that.

They want the Alliance to see the Horde as over the top villains.

But they don’t want the Horde players to see themselves as over the top villains.

The Alliance story ends up being canon more often than not it seems like, when the two stories conflict.

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

I think its more base than that.

They want the Alliance to see the Horde as over the top villains.

But they don’t want the Horde players to see themselves as over the top villains.

The Alliance story ends up being canon more often than not it seems like, when the two stories conflict.

Yes and it is annoying for both parties.

The only good part of the 8.2.5 plot being unilateral is that there are no ways to interpret it.

Personally, I think that blizzard’s mistake is not being fair when it comes to caresses and blows.

The horde usually takes the gifts and a good part of the BFA coups instead the Alliance is only hit two times but with force.

[Varianiel-borean-tundra]

You mean that it does not fit your personal definition of the word after a Sophist reasoning that fits with your goal of reducing the importance of the event.

no, because it doesn’t fit the legal definition.
genocide is a very…very specific crime and as presented to us it isn’t

Mention at least one if you like two that fit your definition and are not based on Maiew’s comment when he mentions that they ended up with minor races in the past.

Ho otherwise War casualties are understood military personnel killed in combat do not fall into the category of war crime.

the closest thing to genocide that the Alliance has committed was the irresponsible submission of the Goblin ship

you’re literally starting off on the premise that only the things that have happened in recent history matter, congrats

So you are one of those people convinced that the Tree is corrupt despite being purified and have been blessed, what next? You will also say that Nordrasill is corrupt.

it was blessed by only 2 aspects, the aspects are no more and rather importantly we SEE that it is being corrupted in the dream

Some time ago something that Bolvar fordragon was not a leader of the Alliance having been replaced by Varian, under that same premise I could deny Garrosh’s loss by being dismissed by Thrall before being overthrown.

except that he was NEVER the actual leader, he was a stand in for an individual that already existed beside him AND fulfilled that duty when his king returned

I could deny Garrosh’s loss by being dismissed by Thrall before being overthrown

you mean a man that had no actual authority over anything at the time he “dismissed” garrosh?
yeah that’s not how dismissals work in any sense

since it is clear that you are guided by the subject of 2013 or earlier as you could see with your history of the creation of the Dragons.

you mean what chronicles states to be the case? yeah how dare i

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

no, because it doesn’t fit the legal definition.

This is where you are wrong there are similar crimes categorized as genocide by international organizations.

there are even wars that fall into that category not because it seeks to exterminate a certain town as a prinsipal obgetive, but rather because of the wide range of civilian victims of these conflicts.

The main defense on your part enters the intentionality of the facts.

The intentionality of the facts is clear when Sylvanas’ intentions are unmasked.She does not destroy the Tree and the civilians who were watching him as a reckless act It was something planned.

She sought to provoke a war that brought death to the world.

The Tree had to cause an irreconcilable conflict.

His intentions are genocidal but not only against the night elves but also against all living beings.

you’re literally starting off on the premise that only the things that have happened in recent history matter, congrats

please answer my question.

it was blessed by only 2 aspects, the aspects are no more and rather importantly we SEE that it is being corrupted in the dream

That is only your personal appreciation.

The blessings last despite the death of their source in question since they are an energy infusion

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

¿te refieres a qué crónicas dice ser el caso? si como me atrevo

World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1

Pag 77-78

[Varianiel-borean-tundra]

This is where you are wrong there are similar crimes categorized as genocide by international organizations.

there are even wars that fall into that category not because it seeks to exterminate a certain town as a prinsipal obgetive, but rather because of the wide range of civilian victims of these conflicts.

The main defense on your part enters the intentionality of the facts.

The intentionality of the facts is clear when Sylvanas’ intentions are unmasked.She does not destroy the Tree and the civilians who were watching him as a reckless act It was something planned.

She sought to provoke a war that brought death to the world.

The Tree had to cause an irreconcilable conflict.

His intentions are genocidal but not only against the night elves but also against all living beings.

that last bit destroys the genocide narrative, but name one war that has legally been defined as genocide on the basis of just losses, with no intention of explicitly destroying a specific group

That is only your personal appreciation.

The blessings last despite the death of their source in question since they are an energy infusion

we literally see corruption spreading throughout the dream, including around where the world tree is

them lasting is speculation, we don’t know exactly how the blessings work
and it may very well be that not being blessed by time means that with seemingly all magic they weaken as time progresses

even the titan’s seals meant specifically to chain the old gods have weakened over time, there’s no reason to believe that hand me down magic from lesser beings is capable of holding back their corruption more than the titans themselves could do

[Asotcha-azjolnerub (Asotcha)]

You forget the peace treaty being broken in Ashran which Horde players refuse to accept or suddenly erase from memory.

To be fair, I think Most of us want to erase Ashran from memory.

[Eret-hyjal (Eret)]

Say it with me. The players have zero choice. Its the writers.

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

that last bit destroys the genocide narrative, but name one war that has legally been defined as genocide on the basis of just losses, with no intention of explicitly destroying a specific group

• Group to harm living beings.

• Method provoke a war

Just War is a joke that is told only when one of the two factions focuses on the destruction of the enemy’s military and chain of command and the other focuses on the populations.

[Varianiel-borean-tundra]

Just War is a joke that is told only when one of the two factions focuses on the destruction of the enemy’s military and chain of command and the other focuses on the populations

so what war has been classed as genocide on the basis of civilian losses without the intent to destroy a group?

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

we literally see corruption spreading throughout the dream, including around where the world tree is

That is a fear on your part, you refuse to grow because of the fear that the plants get sick.

[Varianiel-borean-tundra]

That is a fear on your part, you refuse to grow because of the fear that the plants get sick.

the world trees aren’t JUST plants though, which is precisely why when teldrassil got corrupted it was such a huge deal before
the corruption of the dream is a bigger deal than the legion invading azeroth again

there’s a reason that the druids protect the dream with their life and everything else is secondary, when the dream falls so does the rest of azeroth

life can regrow from destruction, it can’t regrow from a broken dream

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

so what war has been classed as genocide on the basis of civilian losses without the intent to destroy a group?

Cartago, Trail of Tears(USA), 1804 Haiti massacre, Bosnian genocide, Organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners in China,WW2

could continue
But I start feeling nauseous.

Everything I mentioned does not have the primary intention of destroying a group And so they qualify as genocide.

Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as

… any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2

Article 3 defines the crimes that can be punished under the convention:

(a) Genocide;

(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;

© Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;

(d) Attempt to commit genocide;

(e) Complicity in genocide.

— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 3

life can regrow from destruction, it can’t regrow from a broken dream

man of little faith

You are only afraid to create it

[Varianiel-borean-tundra]

Cartago

is impossible to tell due to sheer time differences, but A. it’s not classified as a genocide
B. those that make the case for it claim so based upon…questionable claims that the romans slaughtered everyone they could and salted the earth…a genuine attempt to destroy the people

Trail of Tears(USA)

not legally classified as a genocide, while historians have gone back and forth there has yet to be a consensus and the legal definition prevents it

1804 Haiti massacre

not classified as a genocide

Bosnian genocide

was intentional

Organ harvesting from Falun Gong

isn’t classified as a genocide

could continue
But I start feeling nauseous

by listing human right’s abuses rather than actual genocide under the definitions that globally each nation has accepted

Everything I mentioned does not have the primary intention of destroying a group

the only one in that entire list that was classified as a genocide very much had that intention and was a genuine ethnic cleansing

man of little faith

You are only afraid to create it

the only life that can come with the dream being broken is one of constant warfare, races like humans, gnomes, and the current iteration of elves would be massacred en masse for being weak

the way life is on azeroth as it stands is a direct result of the dream and the titans guidance, before that all life on azeroth was in a constant state of war and death

the scale of death and destruction that the elves faced as their tree burned as the banshee watched is nothing, it is a day of peace for the elves compared to the past

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

the only one in that entire list that was classified as a genocide very much had that intention and was a genuine ethnic cleansing

Still they are listed as such.

Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as

… any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2

Article 3 defines the crimes that can be punished under the convention:

(a) Genocide;

(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;

© Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;

(d) Attempt to commit genocide;

(e) Complicity in genocide.

— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 3

This would be the legal qualification you mention of Genocide.

what was committed against the night elves enters into the calification of the convent of 1948

You rejoice the unintentional act as a quest to destroy the night elves

You claim that there was no intention to harm them when it is clearly intended to mentally break these people from the beginning.

ho but forget that you don’t like this article.

Would you deceive us of a legal article that fits your definition of genocide?

I would like to study it.

We don’t know how they handle it in Azeroth anyway,If a king who is a legal authority within this world has called him this way there is no way to deny it

Yes, I know it is a small fallacy of authority on my part,But it is still true…

[Grabbag-barthilas]

What’s going on in thi-

Nope.

[Varianiel-borean-tundra]

Still they are listed as such.

Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as

except they aren’t, many of them have had controversies over not being classified as genocide

You claim that there was no intention to harm them when it is clearly intended to mentally break these people from the beginning.

break them from fighting, not to destroy them or their views as a people, there is a massive difference there

We don’t know how they handle it in Azeroth anyway,If a king who is a legal authority within this world has called him this way there is no way to deny it

no we don’t, and we can’t class it as a “mentally breaking them = genocide” anyway as they’ve made it clear that the horribly conditions and treatment of the orcs wasn’t genocide

the one and only example of something being classified as genocide that is directly referenced in WoW is the Dreanei incident that resulted in the path of glory
which was an intentional act meant to destroy the Dreanei as a people

in any case all of this is off topic, wanting sylvanas to face justice shouldn’t mean going on a maniacally killing spree against the horde after many of which just tried to kill the woman in question

[Patrïck-ragnaros]

no we don’t, and we can’t class it as a “mentally breaking them = genocide” anyway as they’ve made it clear that the horribly conditions and treatment of the orcs wasn’t genocide

If we intentionally break the Orcs, it was not the Obgetivo of the fields, only their content.

Mentally breaking the Kaldorei by killing Malfurion was closely related to their destruction as a group and society.

The one that will pass from a society united to simple individuals under the control of the horde.

the statute makes it clear that the end may be the partial destruction of the group the horde clearly tried for a long time to erase the presence of the Kaldorei in Kalindor.

Forced displacement is also qualified as genocide.

the intentions are clear to expel the Alliance(Kaldorei) as a Kalimdor group.

Neither she nor the horde consider ruling over these or expelling them from the Block in question.

The primary attention of this war was to destroy the peoples that make up the Alliance

Varok had intentions only deterrent and forcibly imposed diplomacy but Sylvanas from the beginning wanted the destruction of both the Kaldorei and the Humans.