I mean all of BfA was basically the horde absolutely stomping the alliance and showing their greatness by burning thousands of innocent men, women and children alive.
Then they were able to blame it all on Sylvanas, keep their 2 new zones and get away completely unpunished. They have only gained from this war, Rastakhan wasn’t even a horde leader at the time of his death.
I just hope that next time they want the horde to absolutely crush the alliance, they will do it without killing off 1 fan favorite alliance race completely
You didn’t see it from the Horde point of view. We won Darkshore, but tried to do it honorably and had quests about helping Saurfang evacuate Night Elf civilians. Then Sylvanas burns it all down for no reason. Then we spend the entire Undercity scenario repeatedly losing until we have to run away.
Our war campaign? Every single thing done in it was undone in yours. We spent the entire time getting the scepter and Derek and got one moderately powerful tidesage, Zelling, out of it. Alliance effortlessly steals the scepter, sacks Dazar’alor, kills the king, and gets away scot-free. Jaina is a raid boss, sure, but she gets to just neener neener and teleport away. And then to top it off, we give her Derek back! Then Nathanos kills Zelling for it! Hordeside we lost nonstop and the only person to advance any plans was Sylvanas, who we ended up working against almost the entire time.
Then we lose her, Nathanos, and (spoilers from PTR) apparently Gallywix too, and lose Saurfang on top of it all. BfA was nothing but a loss for us and the Alliance came out stronger. Horde is fractured, confused, and hurting. How did we absolutely stomp anything? Our sole victory was at the very beginning.
And yet, nothing of that brought the whole night elf civilization back to life. You get to keep both zones that you invaded against a treaty and don’t even have to make up for any of it.
Undercity is blighted but no civilians were killed and forsaken can remove the blight.
Horde started this war, destroyed an entire alliance race and got 2 new zones. Alliance couldn’t even get lordaeron.
Also, the horde killed civilians in Ashenvale too completely without Sylvalas. Remember Astranaar?
So you’re disregarding everything else about the expansion and only care about the very beginning. Mind you, in the Horde scenario for Undercity, civilians were being killed by Alliance druids and whatnot by the time we got there. Not to mention you bulldozed Brill, a purely civilian town. Forsaken cannot remove blight. Not in our lifetime. We have quests in Southshore about that. It’s a process that will take decades. I get that you don’t consider Undead lives the same as Night Elf lives, but the fact remains they’re nothing but refugees now too, cluttering up the streets of Orgrimmar. And again, you’re still completely ignoring the rest of the expansion.
if that is what the criteria of getting something back is…it will never happen, it can’t anytime soon without some serious retcons
this is also false.
the alliance started this particular war.
the “entire race” wasn’t destroyed, their home was and a good bit of the population but that was because they mishandled a serious situation
even if we assume the intel was good no commander worth their salt would pass up the extreme opportunity that the alliance presented to ensure no one can challenge them on a continent
Getting something back is getting something back. The night elves haven’t won a single battle in the entirety of WoW and they wouldn’t even give us the victory in Darkshore. They had it on the PTR for a while but they remembered to never give night elves a win so that never made it to live. Instead they made Darkshore horde territory now and are about to give night elves to the horde as an undead version.
As much as I’d love to agree with you, sadly that isn’t true. Ingame, it’s presented as Alliance starting the war by attacking workers in Silithus. But in Before the Storm, Golden wrote it so the goblins there actually started getting violent first and killed some innocent Alliance that just so happened to be there. It’s absolutely asinine and I hate it, but canon is canon.
you’re not actually gaining anything from a throwaway dialogue stating you own X
and? they’re spent the majority warcraft history being on top, as far as races go they’re the least that matter in terms of winning given their extremely sorted history
and if you’re only using the ingame stuff to determine wins, what you’re proposing changes nothing
and why tf wouldn’t it be? how quickly do you expect a supposedly devastated people to be able to reclaim even a small amount of territory on a continent they don’t have a powerbase on anymore?
the war didn’t start in silithus though, no peace had been agreed on yet
war doesn’t end just because you stop acknowledging it, the U.S has that problem in quite a few countries where they’re technically at war albeit no one is fighting anymore
or to use a more famous example, china and japan are still at war, they trade…they cooperate, but they’re still at war and any act of aggression between them isn’t starting a war (because they’re already AT war)
This actually isn’t entirely true. They’ve won the war in Hyjal and in pushing back the Burning Legion both times, granted they had help but they still won those wars. If they get outnumbered and don’t have the recourses then yeah they’re going to get defeated. But they also haven’t been in any serious war to BfA’s degree and the target of said war for a good while.
Also, this isn’t necessarily true or confirmed. We simply know Calia is the more than likely going to be the new leader, and she’s also now aware of Delaryn and probably all the other fallen Night Elves. But that doesn’t mean that they’ll be given to the Horde as undead versions, esp since we’ve already gotten the nelf model once with Nightborne. For all we know they could be simply NPCs, or Calia could help them come to terms and they go straight back to Alli and try and make up for what they did. You’re jumping way too ahead with assumptions, we don’t know what’s going to happen yet.
And as I’ve said before in an earlier post, I’m all for punishing the people that deserve it, but not everyone deserves said punishment.
Oh boy, if we’re talking originals lost to anything at all too? Horde’s lost Thrall, Cairne, Sylvanas, AND Vol’jin at this point. Not a single original leader remains. We’ve also lost Garrosh, Saurfang, and Gallywix. Nathanos and Rastakhan too, if you count them.
How do people not understand that the majority of the Horde’s greatest heroes are gone, while most of the Alliance’s remain? It’s so bad that all the ‘neutral’ heroes we stopped the Legion with were Alliance. People like to complain about having to work with Thrall for a single expansion, but we had to work with Khadgar for two, Velen, Alleria, and Turalyon for one, and recently had to work with Anduin in the FACTION WAR expansion.
Do you know why the Horde playerbase has such fervent faction pride? If they didn’t, morale would always be incredibly low, because we’re crapped on nonstop lorewise.
yeah but they’re not talking about the playerbase they’re talking about the actual faction having consequences for it’s actions
atleast the elf with the weird name i can’t spell properly is
and that’s part of good writing…leading things to consequences
and next expansion hopefully they start moving towards there being some consequences or atleast some form of lasting peace being genuinely forged
Well, we can all agree the writing isn’t what most would classify as “good”.
I just get annoyed when people make threads and posts that sound like they’re blaming me, as a horde player, for the mess that is caused by Blizzard’s bad writing. (Full disclosure: I play both factions.)
nah, blizzard has never been great at compelling writing
but it doesn’t mean that players shouldn’t bring up the things they like and dislike about the story thus far
sure it’s probably yelling into an empty barrel but there’s always a chance they’ll tweak things…and even minor ones can go along way to making players feel like even if they’re on the side getting stomped at any given time that it’s done in a fair and enjoyable way
that doesn’t appear to be their intent based on their op, later cleared it up more but eh
the HORDE as in the npc faction
they’re right that it’s become somewhat cyclical
horde or alliance fight
horde crosses bounderies that most players can’t stand
some NPC’s feel bad and fight the current horde
alliance proceeds to treat it as a non issue
this is like the 4th expansion where they’ve essentially done that same thing with the factions
3rd if you count WoD as just a continuation of MoP
the horde keeps just losing any characters with some semblance of development and the alliance keeps getting beat even where it makes little sense
and maybe there’s a reason…maybe they’re trying to do a hard restart of WoW by just scrubbing the characters and forcing the world into a sort of reset
but it’s still crappy from both a horde and an alliance pov
it just becomes worse if you’re alliance or don’t care too much about the lore as the ingame stuff tilts heavily in favor of the alliance being morons
You received Talanji, Thalyssra and Baila along with their respective droughts.
in short you got characters already built and presented, you also had development of the Rokkan Character and the return of Voljin in a Unique Chain for the Horde an Gaxllowe dont Forget Gaxllowe.
You also have Bwonsandi as a character although external as an important part of your Story.
For my part I have obtained an ex-Pirate comic relief and … an Elf of the Communist Void.
The others are so secondary that they are not worth mentioning.
you know the alliance are suppose to be good guys but you guys are out here advocating for the genocide of the horde ontop of that i think people are failing to realize that a lot of the horde turned against sylvanas and now most of it has turned against her ONTOP of that maybe blizz should stop killing off all our leaders and stop making them bad guys
