I agree with most of what you said except for Calia being the rightful leader of Lordearon. She abandoned them and they now revere a new leader that they call dark lady.
No you cant rebuild it,. Like lordaeron, you lost it for ever but keep hearing that it does not count because the other side didn’t destroy it so they have the right to destroy a other city… But yeah its under the term of your leader and part of this plan even if no other alliance leader like it and everyone agree that he is just leader the world to his end.
My point is that everytime a alliance player claim that they wanted to do like the horde, they forget the in the context of the horde, it S*ck real big. That no horde player is happy to have trade Tedrassil for undercity even if we get to destroy Tedrassil and the alliance didn’t get to destroy Undercity. With blizzard, when you get something ‘‘good’’ it come with to much counterpart.
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Never said I view it that way, merely the Alliance would view it that way, likely both in game and players.
You left out the part where any time they kill an orc in the Barrens they have a chance to say something like “I just wanted to be a farmer…” “What will happen to my children?” and other tragic lines like that.
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i could never support this
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This… is a very fair point. The Horde gets the Mana Bomb, the Horde uses the Mana Bomb. The Horde gets the Divine Bell, the Horde uses the Divine Bell. The Horde develops the Forsaken Blight, the Horde uses the Forsaken Blight. The Horde gets Val’kyr, the Horde uses the Val’kyr.
I suppose the Horde could lose all of it’s WMDs, and never mess with the Alliance out of fear of reprisal, but I just don’t see that working.
Either a Cold War is impossible, or it’s only possible by isolating the two factions to different landmasses, and that doesn’t work well. The Night Elves and Blood Elves are far too connected to their lands to leave them.
To the point of why the War was started, I do still believe that ultimatly Sylvie’s decision to burn the tree was coming from a place of pursuing whatever personal objectives she has; rather than anything involving either the Horde (or even the Forsaken). While “A Good War” doesn’t specifically state this, its relatively implied that Teldrassil was a moment of no-going back for Sylvie; she’s in her end game now … and its unlikely that End Game is going to be to the Horde’s liking.
There is a reasonably high chance that beyond just both factions being wrecked by the end of BfA (to the point where NEITHER side has the influence or power to do anything other than nurse their own wounds), Sylvanas will betray the ever loving crap out of the Horde. That, even IF she originally pursued this war for the Horde’s benefit (debatable) … the moment she burned the tree was the moment she decided her goals took precedence over the entire faction; and both sides are currently dying to achieve whatever it is she wants to accomplish atm.
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the alliance do not have enough people to occupy horde land. Sylvanas goal has always been the destruction of Stormwind and turning its people undead. the thing is she has to go through the rest of the alliance to do that. Her target has always been stated to be Stormwind and nothing more.
also trying to make the horde feel even worse when they are already down is pathetic. the truth is the horde need to win this war.
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Sure, let’s justify Sylvanas’ tactics and methods and ensure the Horde has a celebrated Warchief to inspire future generations, every bit as bad as the Lich King.
The Horde needs to lose this war, as much for it’s own good as the planet’s. If the Horde wins, the Alliance is gone. The Horde would then turn on itself, fighting until the last handful of survivors are left on a dead planet.
The good news is, the Horde needs to lose the war. That doesn’t mean the Alliance needs to win it.
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Horde wins. Stormwind is gone and the human bias goes with it. to me that is a win. i dont like some of the stuff sylvanas has done but i rather side with her to break the alliance than become puppets for the alliance.
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So because you don’t like Humans, and how they monopolize the Alliance’s content, you’re willing to see the Horde self-destruct after winning the war against the Alliance, fighting a costly Civil War that, when it ends and the dust settles, the scant few survivors realize they’re on a dead world and facing a slow and painful death by starvation, disease, and drought?
Or it’s a matter of her doing something awful that they’ll hate on the Horde’s behalf. Sylvanas crossing the line at a sprint to do what she thinks is necessary but monstrous is nothing new.
“Ha ha, I fooled you all!” Is less fun than “You can hate me, but you only exist because of what I did”. If she’s playing on the existential level, such as working to solve the problem of the dying planet by mastering death itself, then it may be less about Horde/Alliance for her so much as it is stacking the bodies higher so she can ‘Save’ everyone. She may not even care for how this looks because she knows nobody will support her even if she confessed her plans, but sees it as the only way forward and is forging ahead alone as she always does.
That makes for a much more compelling character than a Sylvanas who is doing everything for a ‘personal reason’, when it’s clear to anyone that she’s endangering her goal of living forever more than inaction would have. Sure, she wants to survive, but if the game afoot is such that the risks she’s currently taking are for a comparable reward then it won’t be as silly.
I’m personally holding out for the ‘Sylvanas had a noble intention all along’ plot, but not one where she cares about redemption or justifying anything, or one where anyone actually agrees with her methods. Hell, if it turns out she was right all along and she’s pulling a ‘IT WAS THE ONLY WAY’ Dr. Strange moment straight out of Infinity War, then we might even get to keep her. Especially if her endgame (heh) involves a chance to restore the lost nelves to life (not unlife) - which if we’re going to the shadowlands may be on the table.
But as always; Even my admittedly fringe speculations are just worthless until we have this critical information.
#WhereIsShe
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You do realize that once she destroys SW and raises its population into Undeath (like she’s stated as wanting) it would drastically increase the chances of her just turning her massive military might against the living Horde races (as, they, unlike the Forsaken, only lose resources in times of War). There is a reason she deliberately avoided discussing Horde diversity (and habits of infighting) when using Old Grudges on an Old Soldier to convince him to agreeing to this war.
If she truly believes that lasting peace is unobtainable between the Alliance and Horde due to past conflicts; there is no way in hell she believes the Horde could attain it once the Alliance is no longer there to stop it from fragmenting. If true, eternal peace is what she truly wants … then she said it herself “We’ve paid the price for sharing this world” (the Forsaken have paid the price for sharing…)
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you want the horde to lose fine. The alliance has to have half its leadership killed off and lose as well. if you want to break the horde then the alliance must break too.
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I already said that in this scenario the Alliance doesn’t have to win. I’m honestly in favor of a Stalemate or the Black Empire winning this one.
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Neither is her using people as tools for personal motivations, then discarding them once they are no longer of use to her (either due to her achieving her objective, or them realizing they’re being used and cease to be useful). She has also shown no indication that her “True Motives” (which we are being hammered over the head with, even if we don’t know what THEY are) are in any way going to benefit the Horde as a whole. She’s just trying to “Kill Hope” in some way…
In fact, she heavily suggests that she fully expected the possibility for Saurfang to eventually betray her in “A Good War”; as well as believing that its not unlikely that entities like Elune would try to get in her way. Those are not comforting signs to her true motivations…
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Elune saving Malfurion damned the night elves. so yeah there is that. It seems like Elune is not a good person.
Everyone uses other people for personal gain.
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A plan so brutal in its means that Saurfang and Elune would balk, no matter what her intentions, still fits with that possibility. Hell, it even fits with what we saw at BfL - Saurfang was outraged at Sylvanas’ willingness to catch her over-extended troops in the Blight, even though that won the battle handily… or would have if Jaina hadn’t swooped in.
An accusation levelled at her, and one that she mocked. I don’t put too much stock in the relevance of this phrase to her aims, however I am aware of your connection between it and Yogg which at least lets me understand why you see as much in it as you do. I’m with you on your Shaw conspiracy, but not this one.
If they’re doing ‘SHE’S CORRUPTED BY YOGG’ then she might well just get off the hook because she was being twisted by an Old God, which would be a dookpull but at least we wouldn’t lose an original Horde leader.
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I hope Sylvanas and human potential are squashed at the end of this expansion, never to bog down the story again with their tired tropes.
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Personally I’ve been wondering for some time if Sylvanas’ true intentions quite simply are to kill Azeroth. If Azeroth dies… what happens to the World Soul? What if Sylvanas is in league with some Death Entity that would claim it? The Planet would become a planet of the Undead, and Sylvanas could attain an effective form of immortality. If the world becomes an extension of the Shadowlands, a kind of Gateway between the Shadowlands and Universe, well… you die on Azeroth you just get back up. No Val’kyr needed.