I didn’t say the finger-pointing was going to come from more than one side.
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Seriously, at this point just declare you want a single faction game and get it over with. You’ve spent a lot of time meandering around saying it without saying it, and you could at least be somewhat honest about your motives like the other Alliance fans who demand it.
No racials, internment camps 2.0, zero, absolutely zero reason for Horde players to want to play in that environment.
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I’m willing to take the loss as long as the alliance has to do something ruthless and cruel to secure it. Flip the script a little blizzard, if you must reuse that script in the first place.
Also please get rid of Anduin. Every part of the story he touches gets worse. I don’t even necessarily want it to be horde that kills him, just let him disappear.
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This is exactly what’s needed. And what kept the real Cold War from going hot? MAD, that’s what. Alliance has enough nukes in the form of OP characters, spaceships, etc. Horde needs to gain some big nukes this expansion, whether it’s stolen Old God mojo, Loa stuff, whatever.
End BfA in a state where continued war will cause the extinction of both sides. A world where Horde can’t keep expanding and conquering or Alliance will wipe us out top ensure their survival, and Alliance can’t try to “punish” the Horde for Sylvanas’ atrocities or we wipe them out to ensure our survival. Then we can go back to Classic state where the faction conflict is just minor skirmishes here and there, because anything more would lead to the end of life on Azeroth.
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[Deletions…]
I agree that something needs to change. That doesn’t mean there aren’t changes that are worse. More significantly, this isn’t “change” to me, but rather an extension of what is a happening.
You simply haven’t addressed the problems the Horde player has with the expansion. Even just dropping the story and pretending it never happened (which is, in itself woefully insufficient) is more “change” than your extension of the Alliance punishment of the evil Horde.
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Problem here is it isn’t that cut and dry, since we have a 3rd party that set up the pieces, and Surfang gets as much blame for the War of Thorns happening. Let alone the Orcs have been pinning for the resources of Ashenvale, since they arrived there.
During one of the Q&A they admitted the future that leads to the Son of the Wolf ending is only one of the story board paths we can take.
This is actually an interesting 3rd possibility. We know from his short story Loa have at least a limited ability of precognition, and with the thread of knowing it was a non-Loa that tricked Voljin into making Slyv Warchief, he could make an argument to her that she is playing into somebody else’s hand.
Then there is also the possibility that Voljin could offer Slyvanas an alternative to saving the souls of the Forsaken and her own, by making a pact with her that he would lay claim to their souls to prevent them from going where she fears they all do.
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The reason the Alliance didn’t end the Horde in MoP (aside from gameplay reasons) is because Varian had substantial character growth, and we hadn’t entered an “Endgame” type scenario like we have with BfA. After the complete and total butchery that was Teldrassil, anything aside from the total and complete dismantling and annihilation of the Horde wouldn’t be just foolish, it would be neglectful and detrimental. And this is strictly from an in game, lore standpoint.
Your solution turns the Horde player base into what would essentially second class players. We can’t have a winner and loser in a two faction system. Plain and simple. The Naga are going to make us all join hands once again, and we’ll forget all about the faction war until next time, per the status quo.
Even if we add Genn into the camp with Anduin, Jaina and probably Velen, there enough leaders within the Alliance to outnumber them. The Alliance doesn’t answer to the High King in the same way the Horde would answer to the Warchief.
Tyrande, Turaylon, Alleria, Vereesa, Wyrmbane, Shaw, Maiev, the Council of three Hammers, Rogers, Crowley, Bloodfang, and Trollbane would all more than likely vote for the extermination of the Horde. Hell, I’d bet Genn would too, as he was openly and adamant about the extermination of the Orcs after the Second War. He may honestly seize the opportunity once it arrives.
And for the second portion of your question, no, we’re not content on being the “good guys” anymore. There is being the “good guy”, and then there is being “Lawful Stupid”. The Alliance is lawful stupid. The Horde literally exists on the whim of the Alliance, and this is as far back as the end of the Second War and the choice to spare the Orcs.
The sole purpose of the Horde at this point is to antagonize the Alliance while there are greater threats out there. Mord’rethar, Corp’rethar, Southshore, Andorhal, Stonetalon, Theramore, Teldrassil and even the battle for Lordaeron are all examples of the Horde decimating and humiliating the Alliance.
Which brings me to my original point. If the Alliance was in a position to subjugate the Horde in such a way, why would they EVER stop there?
Which is why one faction can’t win. The Alliance at this point has zero reason to let the Horde survive, even if in name only with a puppet Warchief.
TL;DR
No, neither faction can lose based on the stakes established by the War of Thorns.
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The alliance player keep saying that but let face it, the alliance keep beating the horde and attacking them in this Bfa.
After Tedrassil, the alliance attacked Undercity and forced them to leave and destroy their own city so the alliance could not take it. After that you have the war campaign where the horde try to do thing but the alliance keep putting our plan to the ground. Then come the last raid where the alliance manage to raid the horde city, go to the leader, kill him then left without to much lost because of their 2 leader who can fight the horde alone without dying.
How do you see yourself as the reactionary punching bag when anytime the horde do something, the alliance end up beating them to the ground saying ‘‘dont do it again or will beat you again’’. If anything the horde is more as a punching bag in Bfa.
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Oh so you want to change our place?
Ok so let see how it should turn out. In the two next expansion, both faction will let the faction war aside to face a bigger enemy. Meanwhile, the horde will be so good and gentile that starting a war against them would look stupid since their is a bigger enemy and the peace between both faction is kind of good.
But here come the new expansion. Its start with Anduin becoming so light zealot for no reason that he decide to destroy the horde even if the world is near the destruction. So he decide to go in the barren to strike the tauren. All the alliance force is their struggling to beat the tauren alone but still manage to beat them and destroy Thunder bluff from distance. Meanwhile, Anduin was getting beating by Baine but is save by Malfurion who strike on the back but Malfurion let Baine leave because he dont like the alliance action.
After that, the horde decide to strike back and siege Ironforge. The thing dont go as expected but in the end the alliance are forced to destroy Ironforge and leave. In the end of that fight, Malfurion decide to get captured by the horde and we learn later that he prefer to help the horde to kill the mad Anduin.
Later in the expansion, the horde raid the new alliance capital, kill the leader of that city who was a long awaited character by the alliance fan and leave the city with nearly no lost.
At this point you would have what you asked for, we switched place and you could destroy a city. But since the horde didn’t destroy ironforge and your new capital, you would have to endure the horde whining about how they didn’t got a first bump moment like the alliance had with Thunder Buff and how they should get to destroy a alliance city.
Im sure that you would LOVE this.
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In other words, instead of demanding a better game, you´ll just cave in and justify the unethical and lazy ways of Blizz. /facepalm
I´m sorry, but keep yourself the f away from making any more “suggestions”… maybe for you is ok to validate the job of mediocre people, but it isn´t for me. You only make the problem worse, so please step aside.
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We aren’t in april’s fool yet pal, save your post for that day
Somewhere about the time you start mentioning Thunder Bluff, I kept expecting to read “and then they kiss.”
Except that logic does not work. Horde has used MADs. So, from the Alliance perspective if the Horde were to gain some more MADs it would actually be a reason for the Alliance to go all out to take out the Horde before they can use them. MAD as a deterrent only works if you believe the other side will not use said weapons unless pushed. If you expect they will use them regardless, it is reason to hit them hard before they can deploy them effectively.
Be careful what you wish for. The only way this works is if this war ends with the Alliance doing something massively devastating to the Horde. The war has to end very, very badly for the Horde to give them something to fear from the Alliance. Varian has proved that words do not do it. So, something extreme would be needed to set that up.
And keep in mind, both major conflicts the Horde has kicked off were while there was a massive threat to the world. The first was during the Cataclysm while Deathwing was tearing the world apart. The second has been while the world is mortally wounded and bleeding out. So, if the threat of the world’s death was not enough to stop them, what kind of MAD situation do you think would really serve as a deterrent?
Honestly I can’t see a case where the world reverts to the ‘cold war’ state in any kind of believable way. The stakes are far to high. The damage the Horde has done is far to extreme for a ‘oh, just don’t do it again’ kind of ending. The war has to end. It has to be resolved. And, I think that is still Blizzard’s plan. At Blizzcon when they announced BfA there was an interview where they said this story path was intended to resolve the war. I don’t know how they plan to do it. I have some theories. But, we will have to wait and see.
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we didn’t wanna to raid the city.
we wanted to destroy it.
the attack was useless, we could just press the big red button, destroy their ships, no suicide squads and go home without the need of a ground attack just to kill a guy that we never heard of. no need for our troops and leaders to be hurt at all, just destroy their ships, the purpose of the war and call it a day. great victory, move on.
the war should be over already.
at the end of elegy i was promised with vengeance. i still haven’t seen any of that.
Not sure if i truly want to trade places.
but i can tell you this, i am getting kinda sick of anduin, his character is just wrong in the current war.
that actually sounds pretty great.
lets explore that “the light is bad” storyline, even we can use the spacegoat of anduin “his actions are not his own”.and gets light-corrupted by an “evil” naruu. or not, either choice would be good.
meanwhile,alliance players can FINALLY enjoy some revenge for all past horde crimes.
and maybe have actual internal division and not being the perfect boys who can do nothing wrong.
then he would probably became one of the greatest alliance characters in history, we need flaws, we need someone who represents “the bad of the alliance” like no other. anduin light corrupted is that.
that would be actually pretty great coming from malfurion.
it would be under our terms, right? so everything will be like i’ts all part of his plan, and ironforge can be rebuilded. (this isn’t the case with lordaeron)
okay i can understand this,since liked characters are subjective and depends on the person.
like spending all 8.0 trying to help that character only for blizzard to force you to raid and KILL that character must a truly low-blow.
no one deserves that. period.
While i would actually “love” part of what you said applied to the alliance (because we are sick of reaction to what the horde does)
i can truly understand other concerns like… killing horde characters.
in the end both sides sucks. horde is stupid evil and alliance stupid good.
so… i can’t wait until this garbage faction war is over.
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Haha no that would be what would happen in our current story line. I was making a story line where the place between the horde and the alliance change.
Anduin attacking Thunder bluff just to see Baine could happen to much for thinking about it.
- We don’t want to wait to attack the horde. One of our few bipartisan moments is when we say the Alliance should’ve attacked first.
- We’re almost always moralized as we fight the horde. Some of us aren’t paladin fans.
- We don’t beat the horde by being better, but by the horde being self destructive.
- We get gameplay > story, but Alliance players don’t get anything for winning. We even lose more stuff in the next few expansions.
How about we just have the Draenei nuke Thunder Bluff from orbit and call it even?
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This is the exact reason the set up for this expansion failed so hard, it would have made sense, if BFA had actually started with the Alliance learning Slyvanas was smuggling Azerite into Undercity to build and then mass produce the Azerite Warmachine.
We also alter Before the Storm a little so that Turalyon is actually in range to prevent Slyvanas from landing the killing blow on Calia. After the meeting the Horde rightfully feel like the Alliance betrayed their word due to Turaylon intervening, while to the Alliance, Turalyon was merely protecting the rightful leader of Lorderon.
Anduin still ends up with the view point that Slyvanas is the obstacle to human-forsaken peace and in order to ensure lasting peace they must stop the warmachine from being built and launch an invasion of Tirisfal under the guise of restoring the “rightful” ruler.
Then when we get to the Horde retaliating against the Night Elves, we alter the destruction of Teldrasil to be half an accident where it either burns because the Druids were in the process of weaponizing the World Tree as a last resort, or the tree burns because the Vindicaar was aiding in the battle, but the Sindorei and Shaldorei manage to port inside the vessel and sabotage the core, causing it to crash land and explode into Teldrassil.
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Yup we all wanted that, but since then you attacked Undercity and in 8.1 You were the one attacking the horde. You made the action of going on the other continent to raid the city.
And how is that being reactionary? At this point the alliance could start a attack on the horde the next expansion, try to eliminate the horde and you would still be moralised. Being morally grey is not the same as being the attacker.
Hmmm wait. The horde beat the night elf by being few race army against one race army. The alliance beat the horde in the all our fight FORCING them to being self destructive. Undercity was destroy because the alliance was winning the fight.
OH yeah because the horde win so much with Tedrassill or undercity. The only moment that the horde win something by beating the alliance was in cata, and that only happened because the alliance had way more for 6 years. Right now even if the alliance player make it seem otherwise, both side have as much so no need to make someone ‘’ win’’ something over the other.
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And then the gnome blowing ironforge by accident and there we can call it even. Both side destroy a other city and both side blow up one of their city.