The Horde & Forsaken Deserve Better Than A Sylvanas Redemption Arch

A lot of us recently saw a spoiler cinematic from 9.2 about Sylvanas, and we are collectively moaning in disappointment. Among much of the Forsaken and Horde community, there is a love for Sylvanas as a character, but also an acknowledgment of the severity of her actions. Many of us want to stand justice for her actions, and certainly don’t want her to lead the Forsaken. Yes, many of us like her character and are not going to shy away from her facing well-earned justice for acts of attempted mass genocide and even the wholesale murder of her own people (see the Desolate Council book and what she did at Arathi).

Yet we have sinking the gut feeling that Blizzard will just shoehorn her back in charge of the Forsaken and we see a lot of signs pointing to that. The most glaring warning sign of this is that Blizzard is NOT building up new leadership to replace Sylvanas with.

-Are Voss or Calia in any cinematics this xpac? Nope. They could have been.
-Are Voss or Calia in any major quests, or raid content? Nope. They could have been.
-Is Calia just helplessly wandering around in Orobos doing nothing effective, talking about how she doesn’t know what to do instead of stepping up as a proper leader should? Yup. Calia could have easily been involved in much of the content but was not included.

-Has Blizzard had tons of chances to include new Forsaken leadership in content, and not? Yup.
-Is Sylvanas doing the whole pity humble approach to her crimes which can make her more sympathetic to the player masses? Yup.
-Is there a shift in the writing dynamic to make her less responsible for her horrific actions? Yup.
-Is Sylv a moneymaker for the company? Yup.

Let’s hope in 9.2 we finally can see lore figures worthy of leading the Forsaken like Calia finally step up.

It is very disappointing to see that Sylvanas will be potentially shoehorned back into the leadership role of the Forsaken regardless of her horrific actions against all of Azeroth and even the Forsaken. The Forsaken themselves have little reason to welcome her back, certainly, after the events that took place in Arathi in the Desolate Council book (a good read btw).

PS - It’s okay to like Sylvanas, and not want her to lead the Forsaken due to the severity of the established canon lore of her actions. It’s okay to like Sylvanas, and to want her to see proper justice. The end.

PSS - Players have been asking about Calia for many years. Here is something from 2013 Blizzcon Q&A as one of many examples: https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/BlizzCon_2013/questions

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No. Never.

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The high elf model of Sylvanas in the cinematic was well done.

That aside. What a trash story arch. Apparently on Azeroth when someone commits atrocities and then pleads not guilty by reasons of insanity, not only does everyone forgive them for the murders they commit but we look to them for guidance and council.

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“HEY GAIZ I’m undead now just like you! Can I be in charge?” -Calia

Also, you don’t speak for me, traitor.

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What are your other options aside from Sylvanas or, Voss, Calia?

Blizzard wrote themselves into a corner with this by not developing lore content aside from Sylvanas for years. Calia has been asked for by the player base since Vanilla, but Blizzard ignored her until recent content.

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I think the problem with this is that it feels almost as weird as Grommash and Yrel being buddies out of nowhere.

If we had been seeing Sylvanas feeling remorse across BFA and here, it would’ve been different, it would even have made sense to follow her, because the loyalists might think like being very loyal is cool, when the following Sylvanas in BFA in the loyalist questline is no different than staying with an ex who cheated on you, left you for someone else an acting proud for it saying you took “the loyalist side.”

I can’t help but chuckle when I see people proud that they still stood there obeying her.

If we had seen hints, not a cinematic or anything, but hints, it would’ve been well done. But it is as it goes with this expansion, the lore is not as good, and I feel bad saying this because it is effort from the devs put into it.

But they missed the ball there and now hope that out of nowhere we see this and everyone accepts it.

Wait for the inevitable “Let it go Tyrande!” comment from the Human overlords in the Alliance as well.

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Where? Because this hasn’t happened anywhere I’ve seen. And definitely not for her to become a Horde leader.

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What in the cinematic makes you believe that everyone is going to forgive her?

She mentions that she knows she will have to face the punishment for her actions…But right now, they need her help because she has critical information.

If anything, I see her staying in the Shadow Lands after this is all over

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After seeing how the users on these forums give feedback, I can understand why Blizzard doesn’t care about our personal interests.

I would agree that Sylvanas needs to be done with on multiple accounts. I’m baffled why anyone, even someone at Blizzard, would think the Forsaken would willingly taken Sylvanas back after everything. Why is there no strong 3rd rank leader over the Forsaken who can step in? It’s a blatant lack of character building and I’ll bet you it stems from Blizzard viewing us as complete idiots.

Seriously, this place is a mess. I don’t know what could possibly make anyone happy here. And all the bickering, I just don’t get it. The people here seek arguments and name calling.

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Pretty much. The lack of depth to the Forsaken story has backed them into a corner leadership wise. Calia has been a topic for years.

Here is documentation back in a 2013 Blizzcon Q & A with fans asking about her then: https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/BlizzCon_2013/questions

Calia should have been a story they were developing for sometime, but they ignored her. Even in Shadowlands she could be stepping forward more, yet they are ignoring her.

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She wont be back leading anyone in the Horde. Latest datamining has one of her lines as:

Not a Banshee Queen, not a Ranger General, but always a Windrunner.

To me that feels like separation from her past, both parts of it; the living and the undead. I dunno what they have in store for her but it won’t be leading anyone. I reckon she will be off to find Nathanos and maybe find somewhere in the afterlife to be with him.

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You’re mentioning Calia like the Horde deserves an alliance bootlicker as a faction leader …

We already have Baine for that spineless rhetoric we don’t need 3/4 orginal Horde races leaders to be alliance sympathizers.

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Honestly, that is the hope…but who will they replace her with? They are not really setting up a transition of government.

Further more, as fun a character as Voss is? She’s should not be leading the Forsaken.

The Horde and Forsaken does but we won’t get it.

Not if Blizzard are just as happy to literally leave the Night Elves in the gutters of Stormwind, they’ll happily leave the Forsaken in the gutters of Orgrimmar.

There’s too much “let just copy marvel” hero vibe. Our factions have more less been forgotten in the grand scheme of things. Happily shelved just so Sylvanas can go off and have her fanficition in the spotlight.

I dunno, Id have to consider various undead characters to see who’d be a suitable leader. People seem to dislike Calia (I think she’s sort of neat) but who are some other well known undead/forsaken who’d do a decent job? How about Alonsos Faol?

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Honestly, this is a major fear - a total abandonment of the story and just letting both races fall off into the sidelines without any updates. The Forsaken lore for too long focused too heavily on Sylvanas. The Desolate Council book was refreshing in that it let us as players see the Forsaken as something other than blight throwing pawns of Sylvanas.

That…is the problem.

Calia should have had story and development ages ago, but was ignored by Blizzard. So having her surface in more recent content in some cases can seem like she doesnt belong in the narrative…when really she -does-.

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I’m not aware of anyone built positively or negatively for the position. I wouldn’t mind an actual villain moving over The Forsaken. It would fit our motto to some degree.

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The sheer hatred that many Horde players have for Calia is overwhelming.

The equivalent would be putting Magatha Grimtotem in charge of Exodar, or something equally ridiculous.

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