And when that day comes, I will have milk and cookies for you cause that’s where loyalists are headed with Sylvanas. While the narrative might want us to hate each other, we should unite in mutual hatred of being forced into these horrible narritives that kill what we love.
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Not to put quite a fine point on it, but Tyrande’s gambit in Darkshore really was sort of trash; and only wasn’t an unmitigated disaster because of she got bailed out by a God-Call. As it was presented, the Alliance (at least those in SW) were already overtaxed; getting to the point where they were likely having to rely on conscription forces soon.
As of the time of Tyrande’s demand, the EK Alliance really was spread pretty thin … and honestly (on a conceptual level) removing the core bastion of Horde power on EK (so that the Alliance can more freely focus on the West); and destroying the Zandalari Navy (so that the Alliance can more freely MOVE their forces west) … are not bad ideas. Hell, even Anduin’s risk to release Saurfang seems motivated by trying to ensure that the Horde takes some of the burden of dealing with their own problems (which, yes, if it had worked … which it seems it has, would SAVE Alliance lives. Its essentially the exact same position that Tyrande took in Surumar).
Tyrande’s “demand” to try to open up ANOTHER front IMMEDIATELY (one completely on the other side of the world; where the Alliance has ZERO infrustructure to actually wage a war that they could rely on; and where MOST Alliance races cannot overcome that MASSIVE deficit with just “Nature” like the NEs can) … was NOT a small request. It bluntly should have cost the Alliance this war, and it likely should have backfired on Tyrande HEAVILY now with the Alliance Navy is sunk in Naz’jatar (if not for the rebels splitting Sylvie’s focus to the south, rather than JUST to Darkshore).
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How could the Alliance be more numerous and more powerful than the Horde but at the same time the Horde can fight on the multiple fronts but the Alliance can’t?
Sylvanas should be the one with the severe lack of man power.
If we want to get into numbers, probably because each grunt is worth two or three footmen or something like that.
Because the Horde if fighting a largely defensive war atm? They have built infrastructure in Kalimdor to support a prolonged siege. Its why I’m OK objectively with Darkshore being portrayed as a stalemate (especially when you consider WHAT Horde races are there).
The LARGEST death toll to the actual Horde in this war is actually the WoT (where they are portrayed as having lost more combatant forces against the Kaldorei defenders than the Kaldorei lost); but the death toll at Lordaeron was likely proportionally very small; and we lost damned near nothing at Daza’alor (what we lost … we didn’t have yet, the Zandalari took the brunt of that hit. Even the current issue in Naz’jatar we lost proportionally far less troops than the Alliance.
Long story short, if the Horde wasn’t fracturing in the current situation of 8.2 … the Horde would likely redouble its effort to push off the foothold situation in Darkshore (and with out a strong navy … there would be very little support coming from the rest of the Alliance in any timely manner).
That may be it.
So Lordaeron was a military victory. You made your enemies bleed for virtually nothing (since the city is now blighted).
Well their navy did and who knows how quickly they can build it again. Dazaralor seems untouched so it is probably a fair assumption those ships can be replaced if this war drags long enough.
Hm. Thats true too. So its the Alliance losing now. They have lost far more soldiers than the Horde has since the war started.
The Entire Horde was needed the first time and if I recall the Night Elf army never actually engaged the Horde. So we can assume the whole Night Elf army on their home turf against just the Forsaken and Goblins is going to go very badly for the Horde after the initial defenses go down.
Any troops and supplies Sylvanas sends is going to fail to reach the Horde in Darkshore and now that they no longer have any navy to speak of.
At this point I would pull out of Ashenvale and Darkshore, it sounds like a death trap unless the entire forest has been reduced to ash.
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Its not their home turf anymore. Just look at Darkshore, do you see the massive amount of construction already existing there? Do you see how nasty the Gobs and Forsaken are at removing that tactical terrain advantage as much as they can. Do you think Ashenvale (which is THE MOST important territory to hold in ALL of Northern Kalimdor) has weaker defenses than Darkshore?
Hell, canonically its been months since the War Started … the ONLY reason I can think of for there not to be already a Grimrail built line through that territory is because Blizz REALLY hates investing in consistent tech progression (and Gallywix is a handicap). With the Mag’har now part of the Faction, there really is NO reason we shouldn’t be allowed access to that tech.
Like it or not, but Kalimdor is the HORDE’S continent right now. They are fighting a defensive war on their own home turf, and had plenty of time to reinforce the ever loving crap out of Ashenvale (even if they didn’t have time to fully do the same with Darkshore). Cata (if it showed us anything) its that it is immensely difficult for the Alliance of EK to properly reinforce and resupply the Kaldorei.
Taraujo occurred in part because of the Alliance’s desperate attempts to open up a supply line and second front though Stonetalon (and that situation has been compounded by the loss of Northwatch; Theramore; and now their navy. The unfortunate reality is that Saurfang’s rebellion is liable to be one of the only factors currently protecting Tyrande’s incursion in Darkshore.
It is their home turf still. They know it better than anyone and all the Horde did was build some roads.
Druids and Malfurion seem to be able to grow trees like it is nothing so far.
You saw how malfurion ambushed that caravan. Its clear there is still plenty of forest left.
I think the only reason there is a “battle for darkshore” is for game purposes.
Blizzard had this cinematic that Tyrande actually does say Darkshore is won and overwith.
They probably scrapped it because of terrible it was lol.
I think you are really over-estimating how quickly the Horde is capable of stripping the largest forest in WoW.
I see it the other way actually. The Horde has conquered these zones and then put measily garrisons in different holds. Now they are just sitting ducks waiting for the NEs to strike any target they wish.
Ashenvale and Darkshore just became something out of Vietnam.
All the NEs need to do is just take down fort after fort. Use the very nature against the Horde and any attempts to reinforce them is going to require a huge force which I don’t think Sylvanas can afford right now.
I don’t see how this is relevant to what the situation is in Ashenvale and Darkshore.
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Similar to what we’ve discussed about in other context, hindsight mitigates this considerably. It could have been a disaster. But it wasn’t. And in fact, with the Alliance winning on all fronts, this was a front that the Alliance wouldn’t have been winning if Tyrande hadn’t made that God-Call. And that’s on top of Night Elves still serving out out at Nazmir as a distraction for Dazar’alor.
I agree with all of this. Sylvanas isn’t even at Darkshore any more to help the Horde out.
Unfortunately all we have is speculation for this. And the mission table, in which the Night Elves are already all the way back out to Azshara and sabotaging Gallywix’s Pride.
Like it or not, this is headcanon until something comes to confirm it. And just not true if the mission table is canon.
During the Cataclysm the Night Elves didn’t have Malfurion’s help, either. He left for Mount Hyjal during Darkshore questing and was up there until Ragnaros was defeated, which covered the entire span of Garrosh’s war that we got to see in Night Elf terriory.
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Well, I will never argue that the NEs aren’t strong … or especially potent in their own terrain. However, I do wonder what exactly is happening in those captured NE territories that are further inland? While I have no other indication as to what exactly Sylvie has planned (other than it likely coming at the expense of the Horde) … I also have no idea were exactly the Horde is spending its resources in this war.
Outside of the War of Thornes, the losses to the actual HORDE forces have been relatively minor in comparison to the Alliance; and outside of the WoT the Horde has been fighting a defensive war almost exclusively. Even the lions share of damage done on the attack on Dazal’alor resulted in little damage to the Horde forces themselves (it was primarily to the Zandalari who had not officially joined). The Mag’har; Nightborne; and Hightmountain also find themselves in the unique positions of suffering very little damage in this conflict. So where are they? LOL we may never know. ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
I wonder this, too. It’s why I keep saying I want a Battlefield: Ashenvale.
And why I am preemptively disappointed that we will probably get Battlefield: Mulgore instead.
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Speaking of Battlefield Mulgore (or even Silvermoon if that where to happen) how … exactly are those going to operate? Will it be Horde Rebels AND Alliance on one side; fighting against Horde Loyalists? Thats a terrifying prospect considering that Blizz will either need to invent new characters (or bastardize existing characters) to side with her? It would sort of be them trying to justify why Rexxar happened to just be around in early 8.0 … they really had to stretch there.
It would just be like Battlefields: Barrens again. Both Horde and Alliance come to save Horde territory from an insane warchief, mostly killing rares that have been indeed just been made up for the patch.
Player loyalists will be told to play along with the rebels.
Man … what a weird scenario we find ourselves in … what is Blizz doing with themselves (other than creating a clear echo chamber for their writers)? I mean … it still bothers me how easy it would have been to excuse the Vindecaar (and even Velen and Kadghar along with it) if Blizz wanted to (but they chose to just ignore it because they were inconvenient). Just have them off-world, in Outlands repairing Tempest Keep and the Genadaar for evacuation to Azeroth.
At this point, think I’ll focus on exclusively on what I can GET out of BfA (potentially). Vulpera would be nice, but I think I’d prefer the Kelpin now. Gazlowe as my racial leader would cheer me right the hell up. Saurfang’s messaging in his overly expensive cinematics is NOT squandered for a cheap escape in a quick death. And if I’m really feeling greedy … Sylvanas betrays Nate and the Forsaken to such an extent that they actually do turn on her too (saving their potential).
Also, Old God expansion with ALL of them would be a pleasant surprise.
I’m in the slow process of leveling up my alts so I can get them to the Darkshore Wafront at least. First my plate wearing alts, since the Night Elf plate set from there is the one I want the most (the rest of the sets are are… meh, but my alts definitely have to be there for their stories). And yes, it would be a considerable waste to have Saurfang die after all of this.
Yes please on the Vulpera. For the Kelpin, well, I do like cute Goblins, too.
If the factions unify after BfA that would make this okay with me.
It could see this being plausible now with the “All eyes shall be opened” line.
Even Yogg-Saron had eye sockets, even if they were full of teeth.
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I am getting tired of all the latest expansions opening with the Alliance getting hit hard by Horde or big bad and losing something just to demonstrate how evil the big bad or Horde are.
In Cata it was Deathwing landing in Stormwind and destroying part of the city as well as all the lost territory to the Horde.
In Mop it was Theramore
in WOD it was Nethergarde keep
In legion it was our leader(admittedly the Horde lost Vol’jin for parity)
and now in BFA it was a whole capital city of Darnassus. While the Horde did lose Undercity it was done under they’re own terms and even then the Alliance hasn’t been able to take any of that Territory or be shown to be rebuilding there. Where the Horde is now shown to be in control of Ashenvale and be fighting what remains in darkshore.
It would be Nice to for once show the Alliance actually rebuilding going into a new Expansion and the Horde losing something significant.
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The Anti-Deluvians are awakening.
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What the heck is a matter with ya’ll??
End of the day the horde dident burn the tree blizzard did.
Personally I would’ve liked to see syl get framed for it then the horde side of the story is proving their honor, and the alliance well trying to get back at them/maybe finding ominous clues that maybe it was something else.
Blizzard did go to far in the emotional spectrum when having the horde burn teldrassil, I dont think anything could ever truly ‘satisfy’ an alliance player other than total horde defeat, which would be terrible for sub numbers.
Really disappointed as a PvP player in a pvp themed expansion that the story is like this.
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Well, this is likely part of the reason that the story is like this. The foundation of the faction conflict is objectively very weak, and its very apparent that Blizz has been having a harder and harder time to justify it; and thus are going to further and further extremes (such as placing Sylvanas as Warchief). PvP has also long since ceased to be dependent on the narrative for support.
But … in the end, I do generally agree. On a Meta level, it was Blizz that decided to go down this absurd route (and it is decidedly difficult to justify punishing the playerbase for something they had no choice in). On the other hand (on a story level) there does need to be some form of narrative consequences for this act. Though you are probably right, Blizz will attempt to try to foist at least the lions share of the blame on Sylvanas in some way (probably through the reveal of her “True Objectives” and through her hurting the Horde in some immense way).
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Having all the blame shifted onto one figure AGAIN is the dumbest thing out of this dumpster fire of a storyline.
The horde did horrible stuff, and they were happy doing it (narritivly the npcs have no hesitation in all the bad stuff they do) so for gods sake hold the horde accountable.
Not the players, the faction
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