The full context of the interview suggests that her revenge is not done, simply that they aren’t going to have stuff focusing on it while we’re dealing with Nazjatar and Mechagon. That particular plotline, like the whole deal with Bwonsamdi and Voljin’s soul, is on hold.
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Those quests also involve Satyr. Who we just covered Elune being up for forgiving.
She was part of the Legion Enchanting questlines.
I am just bothered by the hypocrisy.
On one hand they keep claiming their faction is ruined, they don’t want to be bad guys, Blizzard makes them be ashamed somehow and so on but…
The first opportunity one Horde character does one thing morally decent they all lose their minds.
I play Horde just to get the quests and warfront collectibles. But these claims they make are so exaggerated. Right now there is a warfront where all the Horde NPCs could talk about is defeating the Alliance with the might of the Horde.
There isn’t a single character that is lamenting their existence.
By their definition Jaina, Andiun, Genn and even Shaw are now Horde sympathizers, bootlickers and traitors. It is pure madness.
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Only if they meet her criteria in the process, which, if the one in Ashenvale is anything to go by, includes self-sacrifice. Elune still strikes me as the sort of deity to unleash a series of horrible catastrophes on a people if she were properly called upon to do so.
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That wasn’t a criteria for Zamael Lunthistle. Zamael Lunthistle was already dead.
I’m kind of going over it in the other thread about Vol’jin and his treason…
But the long and short of it is that Vol’jin actually openly questioned the Warchief. People were generally okay with Saurfang going off on Sylvanas during the burning of Teldrassil. Baine just looked sad.
It’s the not saying anything and going along with it, and when he did act, he don’t actually go after Sylvanas, but kill fellow Horde soldiers in order to save Jaina. Similarly, when Saurfang decided to act, rather than confront Sylvanas, he immediately ran to the High King of the Alliance and asked him to defeat her (and the Horde) for her.
It’d be like if the “division” in the Alliance didn’t consist of Tyrandae/Genn questioning Anduin or taking up the fight themselves, but they instead decided to foil the invasion of Drazzar’alor and save King Rastakhan because they knew killing him would drive the Zandalari into the arms of the Horde. They even slaughter a bunch of Alliance soldiers to do it. Also, they’ve decided to conspire with Steamwheedle Goblins to overthrow Anduin and replace him with a leader they feel won’t lead the Alliance to ruin. Especially if they’d never actually expressed this dissatisfaction before.
Afterall, Alliance players wants a character who acts and takes the fight to the Horde, right?
Standing up to Sylvanas isn’t the issue.
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It wasn’t to save Jaina. It was stop him being completely mind controlled and weaponized. I have no idea why he decided to act now rather than before BFL but here we are.
I am sure Blizzard intended the Horde Player to finally say “Enough is enough; We are going to clean house.”
I wish. Instead we had to over power him, capture him and then our leader with tears in his eyes admitted we are helpless in stopping Sylvanas and need 1 Orc’s help to defeat the Horde.
The problem with that analogy would be if Andiun went full Scarlet Crusade, committed some tragedy for no good reason and then his zealots were doing something unspeakable again and I had to stop it.
I would not mind allying with the Tauren and some good elements of the Horde to put a stop to it.
I would be fine with such a storyline because in this timeline I have no justifiable reason to join the scarlet crusade… or maybe better yet the Azure Crusade lol.
But now? I sure as heck will. Azure Crusade for life.
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Satisfied is not the word I’d use, but I’m also in this boat. She’s invoked the vengeance of a goddess, I want to see some Old Testament, plagues of Egypt stuff. That nifty perpetual eclipse? How about she does that over Mulgore. Let the Tauren’s crops wither and die from lack of sunlight, while obscuring the face of their precious An’she. The moon controls the tides? Be a shame if something happened to that small archipelago the Darkspear live on.
Ah. Great minds think alike, I suppose.
A key element in those, especially Avrus’ case, is a sense of being ashamed and wanting forgiveness, and sacrificing something of great value to obtain it.
So far, we have a, one, singular Horde member who even feels bad about Teldrassil. Two, if you count the kid in Orgrimmar as a legit character, and not just a reference.
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Save Jaina by saving Proudmoore. Or heck, just saving Proudmoore. It’s still motivated more by his morals and sympathy for the enemy than his pragmatic concerns for the Horde.
Saurfang didn’t have to be overpowered. He turned himself in and when given the opportunity to leave, refused to do so.
So sure, we can go with Anduin going full Scarlet Crusade and deciding the Alliance won’t ever be safe as long as the Horde exists and launching a campaign to reclaim Lordaeron with the Vindicaar, resulting in a bunch of Forsaken being slaughtered.
Then he uses Lightforging to create an Blood Elf mole to sneak into Silvermoon and assassinate Lothemar, only Jaina intervenes, kills all the Alliance and runs off with Thrall and the Horde to plot the removal of Anduin from power- despite never once openly disagreeing with him aside from frowning.
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Wrong. He never even mentions the Alliance.
He mentions that Sylvanas’ actions are monstrous.
His full concern is over this new undead’s free will.
In that scenario he was captured. I know this because I saw it happened and there is video proof.
If the Horde had done nothing since the end of Legion I would have found Andiun’s actions very questionable. I mean sure we had tons of destroyed cities and had a score to settle but still as far as our cease fire it would have been a cowardly move to strike like that.
Besides the Horde hasn’t done anything that questionable since Garrosh was replaced so maybe we should give them a chance. A Jaina’s path of healing would have been more meaningful because she teaches us it is bad to cling to old hatreds. Sometimes you just got to move on. Especially when the offender has made amends and has changed.
If the Blood Elf was being enslaved mentally by the zealots.
Yeah sure I would join that rescue operation.
However now? With this current narrative? No way would I be alright with burying the hatchet.
Like fel that should happen. Anyone who suggest this should realize it would turn Tyrande/Elune into the next raid boss. Aside from the fact it utterly contrast with everything the Alliance stands for. This war is ending this expansion, i doubt another massacre is how it ends.
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Oh now is just inspired! I love it. The Tauren cut off from sun light, very clever .
Once again I’m in awe of your creativity.
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What if Tyrande carves a bloody path through Ashenvale and Azshara, kills all the Horde in it and besieges Orgrimmar and burns Valley of Honor until she relents?
Malfurion uses his magic to seal any path into Azshara from Orgrimmar and the rest of the Night Elves construct a an impregneble series of defences from coast to coast to ensure no Horde will ever be able to enter their territory.
If I had to fantasize for a way this expansion ends it would be this.
Maybe in couple of expansions the Horde can construct their Port where the Valley of Honor used to be like Stormwind Harbor.
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I would like to see the Horde rebels come to Ashenvale to help get the Night Elves their land back to start atoning for the War of the Thorns in a Battlefield: Ashenvale event.
Unfortunately it looks more likely that we will get Battlefield: Mulgore instead.
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Eh. I hate defending Baine, but he’d already expressed his disgust over the whole Derek plot based on raising him, brainwashing him, and weaponizing him. I think the straw that broke the bull’s back wasn’t who the target was, but what the weapon was. He might like Jaina and all, but that didn’t motivate him to action. Seeing what Sylvannas was doing did.
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The Undead he speaks of is treated less like other Forsaken and more as an extension of Jaina. His first act upon saving him is to meet up with her and return him.
And don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that what he did wasn’t noble or wasn’t the right thing to do. It totally was. But from the point of view of people who saw a chance to strike at the enemy- even if using underhanded tactics- and to turn on them in order to prevent it? It’s treason. For the right and noble reasons, but treason all the same and with Sylvanas still being as popular as she is in universe because most Horde aren’t privy to what we the audience know, his actions are not likely to be taken in as good a light.
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I understand and this is why I take issue with Horde clamoring about being the bad guys but at the same time are upset about Baine.
If anything they should be mad about not moving against Sylvanas earlier.
Well you already know how I would handle it if the situations were reversed and I know you don’t count yourself among the honor horde crowd.
Sidetrack rant here, but man. This would be a nice thing to see in-game from NPCs who aren’t warmongering themselves!
I’m not saying it isn’t true, but all the A-lister and most of the B-lister NPCs are on Team Warchief Baine 2020. We get some C- and D-listers who are okay with the war, but they’re all usually depicted as bloodthirsty maniacs.
Why’s there no NPCs Hordeside talking about how the Dark Lady’s securing a future for the Horde (other than forsaken who’ve always talked like that)? It’d at least help explain why the whole of Orgrimmar isn’t kicking her out and burning down Grommash Hold.
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I think much of the anger about Baine is the fact that he DIDN’T move earlier. Neither did Saurfang.
At this point in MoP, Vol’jin and Sylvanas had been so open in their disapproval of Garrosh that he feared rebellion and Cairne had challenged him to an honor duel. They also let Garrosh throw the first punch against them before starting popular uprisings and only turned to the Alliance out of desperation.
Saurufang and Baine, rather than confront Sylvanas, opted for a suicide by Alliance (only to surrender) and to sneakily undermine her and collaborate with Anduin/Jaina, while not really working to rally fellow Horde as allies outside of a few members. It’s much more conspiratorial and a lot less heroic.
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Look, I know there are some people who just get all in over the top about supporting the mess of this story and horde villainy, but man I want to like him because I’m mainly a Tauren player but he just is disappointing.
Baine’s problem is that he shows up more for the Alliance than for the race he’s supposed to be the leader of. I can think of going to recruit Highmountain Tauren and the end of the Mulgore questlines as stories where Baine stood up for the Tauren.
But he’s there to go be Jaina’s and Anduin’s friend to show how good they are in the book where his dad dies instead of getting help from horde sources. When a book has him talk about Theramore it’s not even the excuses posters here use to excuse that mess, even a “It was horrible, but we couldn’t afford to antagonize the Alliance so we had to put that anger aside and focus on our survival” no, it was a complete whitewashing of what the Alliance did there with a touch of “We had it coming having a camp to protect ourselves from Quillboar just sitting right there” When the time comes for him to make his move against Sylvannas it’s not over the threat she is to the horde survival, it’s because he needs to rescue Jaina’s brother.
I want my racial leader to have more time doing things for the faction I’m in, if not god forbid maybe for once we might get a little bit of story that isn’t just kill a tauren to show how evil someone is. Baine feels like he isn’t written as a horde leader but a sidekick to the friendly Alliance characters.
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