Do you know what’s really insane? We’ve been shackled to the Horde Council for 5 years and we still don’t have any idea about how it works aside from that it kinda doesn’t.
The only time we’ve seen it in session was in Shadows Rising where it was a total mess. Which honestly makes sense since the idea was rushed and doesn’t really make much sense knowing what the Horde is supposed to be.
The Horde isn’t like the Alliance who are united by a shared vision for the future. The Horde is a dysfunctional family united by a mutual desire to survive and thrive each in their own way. It needs strong centralized power to keep them focused on any kind of goal and not always running off to pursue their own interests.
The Horde’s diversity is both it’s greatest strength and it’s greatest weakness. The fact that the Horde Council didn’t tear itself apart within the first few months is pure deus ex machina.
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But back to the initial point of how we know nothing about it:
How does one get a seat on the council? For whatever reason only the leaders of the arbitrarily playable Horde races are on the council and non-playable Horde races like the taunka and forest trolls are being left unrepresented.
How are voting rights proportioned? It seems like every council member gets one vote but that means Baine who represents 24 tauren tribes and Mayla who only represents 4 tauren tribes have the same voting power which seems unfair. However on the flip side if voting rights were proportioned by population then members like Mayla and Lor’themar would be completely drowned out and their needs would be ignored. In other words the system fails in either direction unless they decide to take a page out of the United States’ book and have two councils where voting rights are proportioned differently.
What’s stopping a member from leaving the moment they decide they don’t like the direction things are going? This already happened once with Talanji in the Shadows Rising novel and it was a total disaster. It’s inevitably going to happen again though unless some agreed upon penalty for leaving is implemented. Again the Horde is not like the Alliance, they can’t move in a single direction based on good will alone.
How much power does a council member wield outside of their territory? We see different council members seeming to all have equal commanding authority in Orgrimmar which raises the question of what happens when two council members issue contradictory orders.
Why can’t council members send delegates? This is part of a larger gripe I have with the lore where leaders rarely ever come across as being busy. Like they tell us they’re busy but they almost never send people to speak on their behalf like a person who actually has other responsibilities would.
Do decisions need a simple majority or to be unanimous? We kind of see both in Shadows Rising. Either way political factions are inevitably going to start popping up to try to bully the council into voting for their proposals. Maybe not now but give it a century when most of the council members die and get replaced by those who don’t remember Garrosh or Sylvanas.
How often does the council meet? Is this a daily thing? Weekly? Monthly? How long is the Horde going where no decisions are being made?
Why don’t the Huojin pandaren hate the council? They joined the Horde because they appreciated its dedication to quick decision making. But a council that has to put every single decision to a vote is the opposite of the Huojin philosophy. They should have packed up and returned to the Wandering Isle by now.
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We need to reinstate the Warchief system is my point here. Maybe one that answerable to the council but the council shouldn’t meet except for extremely important issues like declaring war or electing/deposing a warchief.
It makes perfect sense for a decentralized alliance of convenience actually. The idea that the warchief was in a position to micromanage politics outside of Orgrimmar was always stupid.
I argue it’s the opposite. The Horde is decentralized in the sense that each member is free to pursue their own interests within their own territory but that is exactly why there needs to be a strong central figure to make sure everyone still pulls their weight on the macro scale.
Again this isn’t the Alliance where almost every race has the same interests which is why they can count on each other to move in the same direction. The Horde doesn’t have that luxury.
This arrangement could only ever be true of the Kalimdor horde and I would argue could only ever hold for the races whose de facto capital is a Durotar suburb (i.e. the darkspear trolls and the goblins basically) - add distant, powerful kingdoms and you have no reason for this to hold. Hell, even with the Tauren, the oath was between Thrall and Cairne, not a pact between countries.
Why would a restored Quel’thalas give a damn about the warchief’s orders if they go against its interests (oh right they do not and never have), why would an even more powerful Suramar do? Why would the Empire of Zandalar care?
In effect whether you have a warchief or a council, the most powerful members of the horde were never going to treat the situation any differently and the dictatorial warchief has always been stupid the more the horde expanded.
I will only add that if we ever get a Warchief in the future it needs to not just be powerful leader personally but also have show its leadership skills and if possible be extremely iconic to what’s expected of a Horde Leader leading other nations.
And should be mature enough to give up its position once the faction War or whatever war force the assignment of a Warchief.
Whoever is chosen needs to have the Garrosh Horde energy without the crazy or stupid, power enough to hold an army together of different nations and loyalty enough to be willing to sacrifice themself for them, have an Iconic and intimidating presence of a Lich King figure, guided by the true heart of the Horde Thrall, not Baine… anything less than that (IMO) would only further divide the Horde fans.
And the problem with such an impactful character is that it needs to be built up, players need to play with them through their own Journey, get to know them, bleed with them, when players see them they be like: “Woh, that character looks really cool, I want that Transmog so bad! Or I want a statue of them in my house!”… and that would take more than one expansion! Or for the more mature audience be: “Woh, wow your hot and very good looking!” Haha I know it sounds silly but this actually have a certain truth to this! (IMO)
Unless you go full Illidan and DK Arthas and just make them look amazing from the start to finish that could work too lololol!!
I remember when I saw in WC3 Kael’thas, Kel’thuzad Lich, Arthas DK, Sylvanas and Illidan both DH and Demon Form I knew I wanted to play as them sooo bad!! Whoever designed the character knew their players well to leave such an impact to this day…
PS: I’m still waiting to get my Xal’athas Transmog! Hope we get a statue too…(joking)
That too, I think. Warchief as a supreme commander is ironically what that kind of thing represents in rl politics where the notion of a war chief exists, a position whose power is temporary and only when war is going on.
Well I think the “war” in “warchief” lost its meaning after the Third War. Now it means like Emperor/King/President anything that means centralized power. And I think there needs to be one in perpetuity for the Horde to function.
I just dont like the idea right from the start, to me having a strong leader is so much more relatable and simple to mnage than a dam council that you dont even know who is leader of it.
Stupidest point is also the amount of councils you have, like you have Talanji already being the Queen of Zandalar and having a the Zanchuli council but being also part of Horde Council…
The warchief position was so iconic. It hurts my soul to see it gone. I hope it comes back.
They could have still kept the position of warchief and do good with it. Warcraft 3 Thrall is a wonderful example of that. Not every warchief has to go a genocide route lol
And actually, its not just in fiction but in reality too, people are lot more engaged with a strong symbol, and often when you have a face, a person, who play the role of this symbol, it push the people to be engaged lot more easily and feel like getting behind said face.
And for a game, when you have a marketing value to it, its even more the case to make players feel engaged in their factions.
As a little side note, i will add a funny things : I re-played the exile reach starting experience not so long ago, and i feel so funny how the npc tells you that she will make her report to the “Warchief” while this scenario was added in Shadowlands.
Now i know that it was meant to kick you into Battle For Azeroth, but now that its no longer bfa the “base expac” it get the thing even more odd…
You say it for fun, but, its exactly how a lot of people feel about Xal’atath, like “omg she so hot!!!” and when you ask whats her personnality and all “ho she hot!!! feet!!”
All the same, but for Azshara, and i am not joking.
Yes. Also I don’t understand what a council can do to keep the Horde from going down a “dark path” again when the writers can force the council to be stupid just as easily as they did with the warchief.
The peak of having an all encompassing Warchief was the peak of “Lor’themar who” and the devs not even remembering to include troll heroes besides Vol’jin to the point that you might be easily excused to believe Rokhan, a character from Frozen Throne, was new in BFA
Well, i think having a council makes it even worse, and it dont change the issues, as if you could tell me who is the vulpera leader.
Also, the Alliance dont have a council and it also have a lot of leaders. And you can ask yourself this questions for example :
Its a funny game you can do,; its the “mention 5 of this” :
For example ; Mention 5 important Stormwind humans still alive (easy one) then : Mention 5 important Draenei of the Alliance still alive…hum…harder one.
You can do that with every races, you will see the problem is here not only for the trolls.
Soooooo true… from the most hilarious jokes to the most disturbing…
The things some players have said about it…
I guess the old saying is still kept strong and true: “Sex sells very well indeed!”
If Succubus/Incubus and other horrors of sci-fi/fantasy existed that feed on this we know what would be humanity highest rate of death and profit would be for sure!
Gurl, I think Ill riot if my Queen Azshara show up in her humanoid plain form and Xal’athas is the one looking like the Cosmic Queen!
Azshaar as the “Light of Elune” should quite literally out shine everyone even in her Humanoid form! She should have a heck of an godlike entrance! (IMO)
Similar to Ragyo Kiryuin with her godlike soundtrack like in Kill la kill…
God that anime was such a treat to watch it literally took all the anime fantasies troupes and crack it up to 1000%. So many time I laugh myself to tears! Took jokes and turn it into their plot lol… probably should rewatch the dub again in my spare time just for kicks.
But on a serious note if Azshara shows again I hope she is not out shined by Xal’atath. That be really out of her character!
Per an interview with the author of Shadows Rising we learned that council members do use delegates. For example, while Mayla remained in Highmountain, her spokesperson represented her people’s interest in Orgrimmar.
I just wonder if the Forsaken keep Voss as their representative on the Horde Council or if they rotate between members.
(IMO)
