Except for the dudes that hang out in 3 Alliance settlements and freely recruit people to the Scarlet Crusade with the permission of the Church and King. Which, like it or not, is an endorsement.
“B-b-but actually, the Alliance didn’t know that xx_forsakenkiller69_xx wanted to kill Forsaken! How could they!???” Cmon dude.
Wait…
So if a recruiter for an organization exists within a nation (even if we ignore the context and progression of that quest, which it appears you’re doing) that means that the nation endorses what the recruiter stands for?
If a recruiter for an organization openly engaging in genocide hangs out in the Pope’s spare room, then yes, the Pope and thus the Church is endorsing them.
Btw I noticed you asked for proof of your horrible racist monstrous discord and didn’t respond when given it, weird.
2013
lol
Yeah, “lol”
What does Chris Metzen know about Warcraft lore anyway?
If it’s all "Depending on your point of view, then nobody would ever be shown as being in the wrong. And yet, Blizzard has the Horde do all kinds of stuff while framing it as bad/wrong/unjustified to us, the player.
When the game gives laughs for slaughtering goblins or dwarves, but then you get treated to dramatic music, PTSD flashbacks, suicidal tendencies, and a overwrought redemption/vengeance arcs because Night Elves died, Blizzard is sending very different messages about which characters/races matter and which ones don’t.
And it’s not based on the point of view of characters in universe.
Stonespire was never experienced by the Alliance and the questline got taken out with Cataclysm. At the same time, the destruction of Theramore wasn’t just a tragedy for the Alliance, it ended up being the tipping point for Horde as well. It’s where the Warchief started really being portrayed as a straight up villain that we’d eventually have to take down.
The two were not treated as equivalent. Not from the point of view of the people involved. Not from the point of view of Blizzard.
And it’s like this because Blizzard WRITES it this way.
This but unironically
But yeah dude statements about the Church’s opinions during Mists of Pandaria don’t really apply to Vanilla conflicts.
You’re discussing quests from 2004.
Your and Tewdee’s attempts to drag discord drama here were already discussed. The only thing in there that I haven’t replied to are my assertions that I think Tewdee is a bad person, and that I hope he never ends up in a position where he can inflict himself onto others.
And he is a bad person, and I hope he never ends up in a position where he can inflict himself onto others.
I think we’re done here. Feel free to declare yourself the winner or whatever.
I’m going to address both these at once, since they’re related; Thoradin did have to appeal to the spiritual sensibilities of Lordain, but it wasn’t the Church of the Holy Light or any prototypical version of it. It was very much a naturalistic religion, as Chronicles indicates humans practiced before the Troll Wars. We see that clearly in the Saga of the Valarjar when it references Thoradin taking a tour of shrines and sacred groves in Tirisfal–this is meant to invoke imagery related to druidism. Likewise, Thoradin wearing a silver hand pendant in homage to Tyr’s Hand is indicative of a sort of quasi-ancestral veneration of Tyr–more akin to shamanism.
The Light as a faith, even in it’s prototypical form, didn’t take shape until Mereldar began to have her visions of the naaru after the war. It was a very spontaneous and radical shift in cosmology from the nature worship that was commonplace among the human tribes at the time. It’s erroneous to use it as a justification for Lordaeron being the “homeland” because it happened after the cultural-political genesis that the founding of Arathor represents.
Okay so you’re against harassing Horde posters but you aren’t against calling people the N word and saying you want to rape their children, got it. Thanks for clearing it up.
We pushed back on him for statements of that kind, repeatedly. The SFD lurkers should have told you that.
Warcraft III was all about deconstructing the tropes associated with a fantasy world in which some races are portrayed simply as good or bad. It’s Blizzard moving away from that and to the more binary good race/bad race dynamic that’s put us in the current situation.
And look, I understand the appeal of just getting to be violent and destructive in a virtual environment without any consequences know there’s a righteous appeal in being able to engage in wanton slaughter against a bunch of fictional people “who deserve it”. But that’s Warcraft’s story at its worst. Not its best.
I mean again, just the other day you described rape threats as valid, so, I wouldn’t call that pushing back.
And given the sheer amount of those statements and the time gap between some of them and his banning, clearly pushback was minimal.
He’s also far from the only one of his type there.
To you the player you can be outraged about certain things you see but the characters there don’t care so it doesn’t get treated as such.
Yes some races are treated as jokes while others are not. Gnomes and Dwarf deaths are comedy to Horde while Goblins are comedy to Alliance. And not all attacks on the Alliance is treated as tragedy, The Horde killing Night Elves in Azshara were treated as tree hugging pests by the goblins. You are mixing main narrative with regional quests.
In most cases it is until we reach main overarching narrative where certain events are supposed to be a big deal. But only and only those.
Stonespire’s equivalent is not Theramore. Its Southshore, the many Night Elf holds destroyed in Ashenvale or the druid school and etc… its a regional story that you are only supposed to care about in that singular location and then it is forgotten.
Really besides Baine not a single other Horde cares about Theramore. This was a tragedy for Jaina but yeah Blizzard treats it as a tragedy for anyone following her story or Baines.
Because those two events are not supposed to be equivalent and all those responsible for the Stonespire died in Vanilla.
Brann is definitely still alive.
Brann was leading the Barrens expedition personally?
Do you believe that the only people responsible for a genocide are the people who pull the triggers and not the leadership of the organization who do it? Hell, as far as I know, Brann has never even said “oops”
I think we’re somewhat talking past each other on this.
I see this argument in a similar vein to accusations that the Beauty and the Beast was misogynistic because it glorifies Stockholm Syndrome. That wasn’t the author’s point or what they were intending to highlight with the film, and said criticism has to ignore a lot about the film itself to get to that conclusion. The film’s point was captured here:
Which, incidentally, is the point of Warcraft III’s old hatreds campaign, and it would be a mistake in a similar vein to claim to that we should be paying attention to the destruction of trash mobs on the basis that it could potentially be a genocide.
That just wasn’t what the author was portraying.
The Horde post cata is different - and this isn’t a point that I agree with, I share this route of criticism. Blizzard absolutely made it the point, they made people on the other side feel it quite viscerally, and they to this day haven’t let it go.
Mereldar was Lordain’s sister and a prominent member of his tribe as well. I don’t think that the fact that she didn’t translate her tribes veneration of Tyr into something more recognizable today until after the unification of Arathor is particularly relevant, something that it seems that in-game humans (or at least Blizzard) agree with, given that all of these elements are woven into the cultural fabric of what would eventually become known as the Kingdom of Lordaeron, complete with its naming conventions (Tyrs Fall/Tirisfal, Tyr’s Hand, Lake Melredar, and of course the name of the kingdom itself being derived from a legendary figure known for his piety.)
I personally don’t think that this is irreconcilable with your position. Both Strom and Tirisfal can be considered humanity’s homelands, with Strom being its political homeland and Tirisfal being its cultural homeland.
Rome and Jerusalem are both considered equally important in terms of the development of Europe IRL for instance, for different but also overlapping reasons.