Perhaps this is reasonable when applied to individuals but it is unreasonable when applied to entire societies. It’s wrong.
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If Theramore role is primarily to serve as the new home of the Lordaeron Alliance, why is the Alliance so interested in trying to retake Lordaeron? And why does there keep being this annoying habit of people in Theramore trying to attack Orgrimmar or expand the Alliance across central Kalimdor without working with the Tauren or any other natives.
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If the argument is if their buddies can lay claim since they lived there. Then Jaina can use her relationship with the Night Elves to claim that corner of Kalimdor has hers legitimately.
Ah… then at best both factions can lay equal claim on Lordaeron.
Horde with the dead and Alliance with the living.
Its not a if. Its a IS according to Warcraft 3.
Why would anyone not want to go back to their homeland? Remember the people that lived in Theramore were living there in exile because at the time they had nowhere else they could go that would guarantee their safety.
I mean… thats a mighty big glass house to be throwing stones from… how many times has the Horde attacking natives in Kalimdor to expand their exploitation of land that isn’t theirs?
Until Cataclysm there were no Theramore troops in Durotar besides the left over Kultiran troops from Warcraft 3.
Meanwhile in Ashenvale was place of constant aggression from Horde towards the natives living there.
I am not sure what you are referencing here.
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I don’t even think the bombing of Theramore is a good thing.
Just that as far as reasons for causing a mass genocide, it’s pretty weak. Like hell, you even got all of your people out because Baine risked his head to give you fair warning (even if it was unintentionally bait). You’re really gonna just repay that by carrying out a larger atrocity than Teldrassil?
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Ah yes, Lordaeron, historical homeland of Orcs, Tauren, and Jungle Trolls
They could have, you know, stopped killing people and made an effort to live in peace. Doubt they would have been so gung ho about it if the Horde wasn’t rendering military assistance to their extermination campaigns.
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I can’t think of a circumstance where there is any justification. Jaina was absolutely in the wrong in her thinking - let’s not get that confused.
However, that doesn’t make Theramore “ok”.
The Tauren people have lived on the land far longer than Thunderbluff’s been there. Kalimdor was not “unpopulated” when anyone arrived. Just like the Eastern Kingdoms weren’t “unpopulated” when the Humans and Dwarves and Elves built their kingdoms.
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They tried. Their diplomatic envoys were killed on sight, per Chronicles and Nathanos’ dialogue.
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You cannot separate children from society. Society will resist this. And as society continues to kill you …
In my name, I will destroy this society!
The main issue with Theramore is that it’s meant to be a nuke parallel but gets rid of all the main reasons nukes are bad. Most civilians are evacuated and the mana bombs kills via instant destruction, not the firestorms and radiation burns that actual nukes cause.
Garrosh kills a bunch of soldiers quickly that he’d otherwise have killed anyway but slower and more violently. Big whoop.
Are you opposed to allied nations of various races having immigration with eachother? There are no Orc, Tauren, or Jungle Troll nations or city states laying claim to any of Lordaeron. They are simply citizens in the Forsaken nation.
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Yes, after the Forsaken had declared war on the Alliance by backstabbing an entire Alliance army, reneging on their diplomatic agreement.
And also, this was just an assumption that Sylvanas was making.
The Forsaken had already done bad things and were worried they might start feeling consequences for it, so they asked the Horde to protect them and got that protection. Meanwhile in Kalimdor, the Horde complained about the presence of all of those Lordaeron refugees on their doorstep who for some reason weren’t going back to the lands that the Forsaken were conducting their extermination campaigns on.
That’s the great irony here, and it’s why Horde complaints about Theramore are so wrongfaced.
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This would be cool if a single person ever mentioned that person or army as a cause for fighting the Forsaken at all or even indicated that they know it happened.
As I recall their main gripe leading up to Theramore is that those Lordaeron refugees are invading their homes and breaking peace treaties but ok
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Bringing up Garithos is the litmus test of how desperate someone is for arguments.
The Alliance, in the present, has never mentioned Garithos at all.
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The Alliance barely ever even acknowledged the Forsaken at all. Maybe they had decided to give up on attempts to return because they had Theramore, and maybe the people of Lordaeron could make a new home now that the Horde controlled their homeland and oh, woopsie daisy
Garrosh captures the refugee ships and takes them to Orgrimmar to be tortured and killed. Like I said you have bad habit of whitewashing and minimizing Horde crimes against certain characters in the Alliance and then be outraged why they have such terrible hatred of the Horde.
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Yeah bringing up lore is a real sign of desperation in a lore argument
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They actually acknowledge them a lot? It’s usually some variation of “Undead are all monsters and we should kill them on sight and you’re actually freeing the soul of the real person trapped within!” and surprisingly never “Actually I fully recognize the personhood of the Forsaken but have real gripes with their betrayal of Garithos”
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I definitely think the Forsaken could have and should have been less willing to push out all of the human presence of the greater Loreadon area, but in their defense, weren’t basically all of those settlements explicitly aligned with the Scarlets or Alliance (or the Syndicate I guess) and therefore have been working to violently purge the Forsaken as well?
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We actually don’t know what the real start of the Forsaken/Human conflict is. It’s never mentioned who fired the first shot or if such a description can even be applied. It’s been going for years by the time WoW starts.
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Incidentally, what happened to Garithos is something that the Alliance has knowledge of. It’s brought up in Exploring Azeroth.