And yet, despite what Ain would suggest … they have no real claim to it. Not really. Least of all if Calia should do something on behest of “her people” she seems keen on “getting to know”. It may serve as a manifest destiny for certain segments of the Human population, but as far as I’m aware the only one of Noble blood left enough to the Alliance to stake a claim … is Turalyon. And I’m not so sure Alliance players want to tempt fate with him tbh. Whispers potentially regarding Alliance characters may always amount to nothing, but he is one of two characters who could apply to “The Golden One claiming an empty throne, but bringing only Darkness”.
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You don’t need noble blood for the legitimacy to live in your home.
- Calia considers both Forsaken and living survivors of Lordearon “her people”. Which mean Ain’s whole turning Capital City neutral might actually end up the case.
- Calia does have a child who may or may not be alive/may end up currently being brainwashed by the Scarlets we are not sure.
- Turaylon was never a noble.
- Neither is Calia considering she did tell Anduin she gave up her crown status. Which ultimately means Lordearon technically belongs to its people. And as we all know the living and undead of Lordearon don’t get along.
I’d also point out that despite all the claims of the Alliance being the manifest destiny group here, “they have no claim to where they live because they don’t have flags/nobles/whatever” is extremely colonial rhetoric.
And I think that if you believe that Calia would object at all to the living returning to Lordaeron then you don’t understand her very well at all.
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Honestly if it was ogres I’d just bold faced say have the gender option but don’t swap the models.
Not like anyone was checking their loincloths. And plenty of species don’t have secondary sexual characteristics. Maybe they feed their young like birds, only with rocks and dirt. That’d be interesting.
That’s not to say I don’t appreciate bending over backwards to put boobs on everything. Because that’s hilarious to me. Somebody had to make the boobs on Quilboar. When that artist dreamed of making art millions would see do you think the possibility of pig monster bewbs even crossed the mind?
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I’d also be careful about appealing to the notion of legal claims on the basis of noble blood because that makes the Forsaken a group of seditious traitors for their alignment with a Thalassian invader and subsequent massacre of the remnants of the Kingdom of Lordaeron’s government. They would essentially become Alterac or worse, the Cult of the Damned.
Which of course would raise questions of which parts of the Menethil legacy Calia is truly representing.
Fam. You think about the Forsaken more than I do. And that’s like medically concerning.
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Maybe at the moment I am but believe it or not I do have a life outside of WoW.
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Out of sheer curiosity what do you do for money? My favorite job is residential construction but I’m mainly a realtor these days.
I at least did dabble in theater and stand up before the plague. I’m hoping to get back to it. As you can see from my constant posting I love attention and being a smart rear.
Technically, with the Forsaken, especially at the time, being citizens of Lordaeron, Garithos was killed for trying remove legal citizens based on a medical condition.
It should be noted that Garithos also tried to have an allied Prince of another nation and his soldiers killed, first with sending them on suiciding missions then using the excuse of being forced to work with Naga to not die on said suicide mission as grounds for mass execution.
Not a guy fulfilling his oath of office, whatever that would specifically be.
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Funny your double standards when it come to the people already living there then. Though I’ve seen you invalidate the Undead as “people” enough times get why you’ve take that stance.
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I have a life outside of WoW but I don’t like talking about myself on the internet. My background is in history, philosophy, and sociology though.
I’m the one saying that Humans and Forsaken can share Lordaeron and co-exist in peace actually. I’ve never seen any Horde posters propose anything even close.
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Garithos was executing a policy agreement with a foreign leader that the Forsaken had already chosen to align themselves with politically. In a strictly legal sense they renounced their citizenship to follow Sylvanas.
Which is why I’d tread lightly in terms of trying to advocate the Forsaken’s political legitimacy on the basis of the laws and customs of the Kingdom of Lordaeron because that’s not gonna work (especially in light of the fact that in a strictly feudal sense, everyone renounced their fealty to the Kingdom of Lordaeron except the the ones who followed Arthas.) The better argument for their legitimacy is the same one that the Humans of Lordaeron have: the fact that they’re there.
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Fair enough but we’ve some level of anonymity here not known otherwise so it’s kinda fun.
Like I got to meet Boots Riley when he was trying to hype up Sorry To Bother You through Second City in Chicago. If you’re familiar the guys a real one. Practices what he preaches and as someone who’s dug ditches I respect that.
That’s extremely specific but you’d never be able to narrow down who tf I am in that equation.
But anyway cool background we could probably vibe IRL.
Edit: He’s not paying attention.
Your basic Gen X conflictposter isn’t too savvy, but you can torpedo an argument and they’ll still remain 86% combat effective.
Here’s a tip; aim for some degree of human connection and put them down for good.
Would you like to know more?
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Hahahaha! Ogre boobs and loins… not a topic I would ever want to find out about… Dang it. Talking about Ogres brings back to mind Nagas and Furbolg. And of course everyones favourite murder fish, the Murlocs. Those 4 absolutely should have been our first expanded racial options. 
Desire to know more intensifies
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Oh my god. I saw there was more than 100 news posts in this thread including two quoting me and got excited only to see that its been nothing but Internment Apologia and Horde Unpersoning Arguments. Absolutely depressing.
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On the Op post - I get the sense that any form of a sense of strength that male characters exhibit blizzard classifies as toxic Masculinity and therefore frame it as a negative. Blizzard writers don’t want characters who exhibit strength and dominance to be rewarded for such behaviour. The only reward the humble characters with positive writing. Hence why characters like Baine are now “the best of the horde”. Sadly Blizzard writers are stuck in this headspace and I doubt they could do the Horde right even if they tried to write the Horde as a Spartan or Klingon warrior culture as a good thing.
I think this is an interesting Idea, A Neutral Hub like Dalaran where the Silverhand/EbonBlade maintain the peace. Obviously they might have their own disagreements on security and on how things are run. Also due to there past interactions have some bad blood.
Also be nice to see humans interact with undead for once in a more realistic fashion in game.
Can’t wait to delete another Alliance city from the map. No peace with the Alliance mongrels ever. Lok’tar!
Its hard to claim any sort of honor after Horde’s recent history.
Whatever that is presented then MoP and BFA will destroy it unless its done in vacuum.
Btw internment were one of the more interesting events that warcraft introduced. Don’t knock it, embrace it.
I was going to follow some of the back and forth, but this really was the best way of putting it.
The Horde up until now has been in a sense ruled by its warchief, yes, but it has also been run largely by Orcish honor culture, which promotes the kinds of genocidal and fascist governments (and no, I’m not merely tossing out words, those are not synonyms to me and I have larger pieces of work on these which I will link on request - I primarily use Uberto Eco’s fourteen characteristics to make this determination) that we’ve seen from the Horde. The Orcs believe simultaneously that wars of conquest are honorable, and in their own racial supremacy. With any culture like this, the question arises of “what do you do with those who are dishonorable?” who conveniently reveal themselves to be “anyone who disagrees with you”. You don’t have to look very far back in history to answer how fascist governments answered this question. In that regard, death camps and pogroms are not defects of a militaristic, racially supremacist fascist system - they are an inevitable feature - and we were seeing the beginnings of the purity spiral that this entails in MOP.
This ideological structure is what propelled Garrosh to his position as the Warchief. Recall that Thrall didn’t just leave, the Shattering established that his position was politically weak, and that Thrall chose Garrosh because they people wanted him. Recall as well that Sylvanas didn’t just tell Saurfang “hey, we’re doing this”. He instead took advantage of the orcish desire for war and stoked racial paranoia in order to convince him of its necessity. The problem then certainly isn’t helped by the political structure, but it also doesn’t end there.
I hadn’t thought until today, however, that the Horde’s current experiment in more democratic and pluralistic systems could be a way out of this box. Of course, just because there’s a council doesn’t mean that the problem goes away. Culture is, after all, a very difficult thing to move, and the Horde hasn’t actually been given any real reason to move off of it. They could have been shocked into a need for a change, given some real impetus for that - but in the end it seems that Blizzard didn’t want to do that, so instead we have Anduin absolving this by talking about Arthas. Lovely. I of course think that something needs to shock them enough to get them to move away from this ideology - the question is “what”?
I’ve caught flak for this, but I don’t think for the faction’s sake that this question should be allowed to sit out. Could a council finally deal with it? Maybe, But there are challenges. There is a wide gulf between the Horde that was defined in BFA and the one that was actually sold to people after Warcraft 3. I think part of the pushback that you’re getting from Alliance posters on this is that while you can assert that the Horde just represents a different kind of heroism (or that you want it to be), but that’s going to ring hollow so long as Genn can credibly say that the Horde is going to march again, and that no piece of parchment will hold them back. Genn I think speaks for the audience in that regard - and up until now, I don’t see what makes him wrong.
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